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Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

jeffgeerling.com

161–170 of 452 posts

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#161
post #12

We have a Bambu Lab P2S at work. I was considering to buy one myself, because of the ease of use and relative affordability. What printers are similarly priced and have similar specs, for someone relatively new to 3D printing?

I've been told about the Snapmaker U1, but I haven't tested it. More expensive than a Bambu but cheaper than a Prusa (I think)

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#162
post #30

Full disclosure: I've never owned a Bambu because I've never loved the idea of a "closed" ecosystem 3D printer, however I have used them, and am very familiar with the 3d printing space beyond Bambu. For anyone considering alternatives: You should know that almost all other 3D printers expect you to know a little more about how they actually work than Bambus. Bambus are as close as you can get to a "just works" type…

I have an Anycubic Kobra 3 V2 and it “just works”. It’s a Bambu clone but with much less safeguards (for now) and is also 1/3 the price

There are a bunch of these I’m my local makerspace and they generally work great, and are often easily used by members on the more ‘craft’ side of things who’d never hang out here. Was surprised not to see them mentioned more in the discussions around this.

I have no first-hand idea of they’re ’morally’ better than Bambu - I haven’t looked into it - but I think the folks in charge of buying them considered that.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#163
I'm an open-source advocate (some would say zealot?) but I ended up buying a Bambu P1S a few months back because my research indicated that there were ways use it normally without creating a Bambu account, or using their slicer, or having to send all of your prints through their servers.

I don't have my notes in front of me, but I managed to do all of that with hardly any trouble at all. IIRC, you only had to change one setting on the printer itself, and optionally block the printer from Internet access via the firewall to prevent automatic firmware updates and telemetry. I have only used OrcaSlicer to tweak my models, mess with parameters, and send the prints to the printers.

So other than Bambu getting all heavy-handed with a legitimate open-source fork of their slicer software (which is definitely not okay), I'm not sure I'm clear on what the kerfuffle is about. Are their printers now MORE locked down than before? Or maybe only certain models?

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s rough but I understand it. You can be entirely in favor of the open source ethos, even as a commercial entity, but then certain actors can take advantage of that ethos and just directly commercialize your R&D investment and take all the proceeds of your investment, whether or not they comply with attribution or share-alike requirements. It’s tough seeing an open source project you’ve poured tons of care and effo…

Nothing in Prusa's OCL stops anyone from cloning and selling their printer. It only stops the honest people from doing that (and possibly much more, like manufacturing and selling replacement parts or mods). Creating 3D models from existing products is relatively fast and easy. The hard parts have always been the actual design process, materials selection, and setting up the supply and manufacturing chain. Prusa took…

What you’ve said is true but also misses the point. Licenses have never been about stopping bad actions because a bit of text can’t prevent someone from buying materials and building things, just like a speed limit sign has never stopped someone from speeding (unless they crash into it).

They ARE however deterrents to bad actions from less-than-scrupulous entities, and enforcement mechanisms against fully-unscrupulous entities.

I suspect (but will admit I am just guessing here) that Prusa would prefer not to get to the enforcement stage because it is both costly and annoying, but having that in your back pocket is, sadly, necessary in a litigious society with some number of unscrupulous actors, and the deterrent effect alone is likely enough to achieve most of their goals.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#165
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"inauthentic" is your judgement based on your values. My post was not about judgement, just about explaining what I think happens with influencers. Your reply was based on your perception and assumptions, not on what I said it feels. Most influencers use Apple if using Graphene doesn't drive subscribers. "reverse engineering or writing drivers" When I encountered Linux I was already too old to be interested in that k…

You literally said: “They sell something in their videos and do things in videos that are different from their true self. ” “Inauthentic” was I still think a close enough reference paraphrase of your statement. Not a value judgement. You even used the word "authentic" in your thesis. And in general I wouldn’t necessarily disagree but I don’t see how it is necessarily related to their choice of personal devices. An in…

Yes I did, and you called that "inauthentic" based on your value system. I'm not a native speaker but in German "inauthentic" (unauthentisch) would not be considered a neutral description.

"So, this wasn’t a dick sizing contest"

You can say "I didn't intend this a dick sizing contest" but you can't say "This wasn't a dick sizing contest". Again this is based on your judgement.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#166
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they complied? Correction is much harder than starting off on the right side.

Correction is one of many signals, and it’s better than ignoring pushback, but it’s still usually worse than not needing the correction in the first place. Sure, a manufacturer that didn’t need to course correct yet doesn’t mean they won’t change their stance in the future, but the same is true for one that already course-corrected. We see this with privacy eroding laws continually - legislators will “listen” and cou…

I actually disagree.

Someone who isn’t racist because they grew up in a progressive family just means they were lucky. They often have never been tested under pressure.

On the other hand, someone who grew up in a racist family and ends up not racist means their beliefs are battle tested. This is a real test of character — it also tells me how they process information.

What you’re describing is a third case where someone pretends to correct but has no intention to, which I do not think Bambu’s original act of opening of LAN access qualifies.

Now I think the other dimension here is that people are expecting Bambu to believe in open source. They might not actually, which is their own opinion to have, but that’s a different problem altogether. I believe in local access but not necessarily open sourcing of everything so from my PoV, Bambu’s stance is perfectly consistent.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#167
post #38

I own a H2C and have been a huge fan of bambu for a few years, full disclosure. I don't really see why everyone is up in arms about this. You are able to print in LAN mode or directly through USB drives without going through bambus servers. Their slicer is open source but it downloads a plugin once you launch it if you choose to which is closed sourced that interacts with their APIs. Someone reverse engineered the pl…

Everyone is up in arms because this is not the first shady thing bambulab does (like patenting prior art). And probably not the last.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#168

This sentence in Bambu Lab's blog post is wild: > We have documented incidents of service outages caused precisely by spikes in unauthorized traffic - overwhelming the servers, causing service disruptions affecting everyone. The cost was instability felt by all users. So it's a problem that their printers are popular, and they can't be bothered to scale their infra, so let's gate everything based on USER AGENT STRING…

So am I understanding correctly that all of this "unauthorized traffic" was their customers...using their product?

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#169
I bought my bambu labs ps1 about 4 years ago now. I have never connected it to the internet. I've never printed from bambu slicer. I've always exported the gcode and manually placed it into the machine. It's been a nuisance and I'd never recommend Bambu to anyone else because of this. I knew they were collecting from the beginning and I CHOOSE to do it this way, which is incredibly sad. Our data has a lot of value and I refuse to be monitored. I just wish more people would choose to push back.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#170
post #119
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any instance anywhere that a court has considered an UA sufficient for access control? Especially one published under a copyleft license?

I don't think courts basically ever settle narrow technical questions like that. Any court decision would carry with it particular baggage based on the rest of the specifics, so I don't think it would have established a clear precedent either way. The funny part here is it seems Bambu is more exposed to a libel suit than the developer is for... checks notes clicking 'Fork' on Bambu's github. Since the moment he did t…

Thanks, would have been surprised, was mainly asking because OP was mentioning legal concerns. This may be a case for their EULA, sure, but I would have been surprised if there was any legal precedent or grounding for such a statement.
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