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Airport Security Is Killing Us

businessweek.com

161–170 of 262 posts

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#161

"The attention paid to terrorism in the U.S. is considerably out of proportion to the relative threat it presents." W O W. My jaw completely dropped when I read this sentence. Considering we've averted 40 terrorist plots since 2001 this is pretty scary somebody would actually print such a statement. Keep in mind, those 40 are the ones we actually know about as well. I'll continue to put up with the minor headaches as…

Did you read the entire article? The author rather explicitly showed that even if all 40 of those incidents would have resulted in the loss of a plane we'd still be better off going back to pre-9/11 security.

And the TSA doesn't have anything to do with car bombs in Times Square.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#162
post #134

Am I the only one to have pleasant experience flying? I usually travel 2-4 times a year by myself as a single male. I plan for security (eg. I don't try to bring along liquids and wear shoes that are easily removed) and haven't had to wait in a security line longer than 15 minutes in the US in 6+ years. I have been pulled aside twice to be patted down by the TSA, neither of which invasive nor did they get near my gen…

You're lucky and compliant. I don't think your experience is the norm, and my experience certainly doesn't match.

It's always a delightful start to a journey to hold your struggling infant in your bare socks while some college dropout pretending to be a lab tech tests your formula for explosive residue and your wife figures out how to cram the stroller through the X-ray machine. Definitely try to avoid flying now.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this really were the doctrine under which these searches were instituted, wouldn't there have to be a situation where the search procedures are fixed at the point where you bought your ticket, and they can't spring surprises on you by changing procedures between purchase and travel? Maybe I'm being unreasonable, but if the idea is that you implicitly consent when you sign up, then it seems like they should not the…

That's not the doctrine the searches fall under.

So then what does it mean that "you consent to the search by choosing to travel by air in the United States"?

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume that all terrorists live in places with caves and goats? The CIRA, RIRA, Irrintzi, and many other such organizations are still active. Assuming the big risk of terrorism is Islamic extremism (and originating from the Middle East) is a naïve, American-centric view: plenty of us live our lives more threatened by local separatist groups than by Islamic extremism. The big risk in the UK today is still I…

I think the IRA and the ANC are great examples to suggest that violence and "relentless attack" aren't necessarily the best options when trying to combat "terrorism".

The IRA are a brilliant example of this in how they became popular: they had very little support when they took (British) Dublin, by force, in Easter 1916. Yet, after the execution (for high treason) of the leaders, when some were still badly wounded from the British counter-attack, turned far more against the British than had ever been before: the British turned those freedom fighters who few supported into martyrs for their cause.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#165
post #140

Hear. Hear. I want to be able to walk into an airport with my shoes on and walk calmly to an arrival gate to greet arriving passengers there. And I want to be able to carry a Swiss Army knife in an airline carry-on bag. And I want the terrorists to be attacked relentlessly where they live, so that they have to hide in caves and ride on goats, while Americans and other people in developed countries get to lead civiliz…

It is precisely your neo-imperialist, 'preemptive strike' mentality that is the cause of contemporary terrorism. It is, in fact, terrorism itself. If you think your life as a Western consumer is somehow non-violent and unrelated to the global situation, I pity your naïveté. I haven't the time to expound further.

No it isn't. The US accepted the Taliban as de facto rules of Afghanistan, notwithstanding their backwards approach to running the country, and negotiated with them on things like rights-of-way for trade and so on up to the summer of 2001, when the Taliban broke off negotiations. That was before the attack on the US took place and the Taliban turned out to have been giving Al Qaeda a a home for its terrorist activities.

There are lots and lots of things wrong with Western policy towards Central Asia, but the causal argument boils down to 'you made me do it', which is almost never true.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the doctrine the searches fall under.

So then what does it mean that "you consent to the search by choosing to travel by air in the United States"?

Exactly that? Consent isn't what enables the search, but it's still good that the TSA can't raid your house. What enables the search is (i) no investigative intent and (ii) no discretion on the part of the searchers as to who to search.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#167

I don't see why there isn't more interest in high speed rail in the US: New York and Boston/Washington DC could be less than two hours travel time apart, which though it may well be an hour slower than a flight, has a lot less overhead (no arriving two hours before departure, etc). The technology is quickly reaching the point where San Francisco to Los Angeles may be equally doable in around two hours, again an obvio…

Long-distance rail travel is politically unpalatable in the US. For reasons I don't really understand, government subsidies are almost impossible, even though every other form of transportation gets them.

High-speed rail in the Boston-DC corridor would be pretty pricey, too. Amtrak tries it, but their idea of "high speed" is sad compared to what the rest of the world thinks it means. While the Acela is somewhat similar to the TGV, it peaks at only 150MPH, and the average speed is far lower because the track doesn't support high speeds in a lot of places, and because it makes about three times more stops than it should.

Proper high-speed trains in that corridor would require new tracks built for much of it, and with level crossings pretty much impossible for high-speed trains, it would need a ton of bridges or tunnels and a huge expense. A lot of politicians will only support such a thing if they can bring service to their hometown, or where their constituents live, or whatever, so you end up spending way too much time stopped at irrelevant stations instead of going fast. The Acela makes seven stops between DC and New York alone, not even counting DC or New York themselves. It makes six more stops after NYC before getting to Boston. Covering a similar distance in a rational high speed system would involve maybe one intermediate stop. As it stands, when I take the train from DC to NYC, I don't even bother trying to get a place on the Acela unless it's the cheapest option, because it only saves about half an hour out of a four-hour journey.

I think it's ultimately a self-fulfilling prophesy. People don't think it can work, which allows politicians to screw it up, which means that it either never happens or happens poorly. So it doesn't work, and people don't think it can work, so....

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#168
post #134

Am I the only one to have pleasant experience flying? I usually travel 2-4 times a year by myself as a single male. I plan for security (eg. I don't try to bring along liquids and wear shoes that are easily removed) and haven't had to wait in a security line longer than 15 minutes in the US in 6+ years. I have been pulled aside twice to be patted down by the TSA, neither of which invasive nor did they get near my gen…

The issue is not the time it takes to clear security. The issue is whether it makes you feel like shit to clear it.

If it doesn't make you feel like shit given how airport security works right now, I respectfully submit your shit-meter is calibrated wrong.

But also, two points:

1) Your flying experience would be quite different with kids.

2) The flying experience varies very widely by airport. Often by terminal within airport. Flying Virgin America out of BOS is a very different proposition from flying Virgin America out of SFO, and also quite different from flying United out of BOS.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you that your experience will be vastly different depending on where you live and work. That's why it's hard to make meaningful statements about America as a whole, such as "Americans think they are number 1" or "You're more likely to get murdered if you move to America". Nobody throws a dart on a map and moves to America the country, they move to California or Virgina or Wisconsin. Your supporting evidenc…

>I can tell you that your experience will be vastly different depending on where you live and work. I'm not sure how this makes the US different from the countries it's being compared to. They all have more and less dangerous regions. There are more and less dangerous regions within a block's walk from me, but the average over that area gives me a general basis of comparison with other areas. I always feel that there…

> I always feel that there's a racial subtext to this kind of defense of US statistics (which I often hear in terms of education, crime, and health outcomes.)

There is, and that is a characteristic of the United States in general of which most who live there are keenly aware. This is why they speak quickly against comparisons of the United States as a whole against Scandinavian countries or Japan. Those countries do not have the ethnic heterogeneity or deep-seated institutional racism that the United States has experienced and still experiences.

For example, my state sterilized violent criminals and the mentally disabled until the 1980s, most of them being ethnic minorities. This would be unthinkable in Sweden, for example.

We also have easy access to guns and a destabilized internal culture in ethnically-heterogeneous areas, where community respect is a factor of how much crime you have committed or how many people you have killed.

You are exactly right, however, in that living in an upper-class neighborhood in Chicago would skew your perspective of crime in America.

Re: Airport Security Is Killing Us

#170

I don't see why there isn't more interest in high speed rail in the US: New York and Boston/Washington DC could be less than two hours travel time apart, which though it may well be an hour slower than a flight, has a lot less overhead (no arriving two hours before departure, etc). The technology is quickly reaching the point where San Francisco to Los Angeles may be equally doable in around two hours, again an obvio…

Because it's still too expensive when compared to flying. Just look at the cost of the high speed rail plan in California. Until the price of jet fuel is much higher, economically, it makes more sense to fly.

I say let the high speed rails come naturally (because they will eventually): don't try to force it.

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