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Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

nytimes.com

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Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#161

Post by NiloCK »

clintonb wrote: post #81
NiloCK wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is possible in retail, or will soon be. Canada's major grocery chain has migrated entirely to LCD price tagging that can receive OTA updates. There are now no paper price labels in the store. The same chains have extensive camera coverage on the entrance / exits of the store. So pricing can be an optimization function as fine grained as persons currently in the store . Cameras on the aisles as well can enforce t…

The electronic shel labels use e-ink. Their refresh time is around 30 seconds. What happens if two shoppers are looking at the same product?

From my comment:

> Cameras on the aisles as well can enforce that individual tags update while nobody is within 15 feet, etc.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#162

Post by ReptileMan »

alex43578 wrote: post #54
dlcarrier wrote: post #53

Grocery stores have smaller margins and more options compared to pretty much any industry, yet politicians seem to think they are the cause of all of our ills.

It’s just pandering to voters who don’t know better. See: price of eggs in the last election.

I think that opaque pricing is bad in that it creates a feeling of helplessness in the customer, is annoying and after every deal it makes you feel like you have been ripped off. Like the - call us to get a quote on some sites instead of direct pricing.

To a lesser extent it is the same with loyalty programs - my grocery stores often discount items to 50% and on my receipt it there is usually something like - you saved 20 Euro - which could be 20 to 30% of the bill. A lesser mind than the average consumer's may suspect that they keep all the prices permanently inflated by 20 to 30% and if some schmuck dare to buy their favorite cheese when not discounted - it is on them.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#163

Post by estearum »

throwaw12 wrote: post #155
estearum wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hilariously first-order-effects thinking... If any store used dynamic pricing to expand their margins, the others would just do the same and compete away those margins once again, with the marginal gain being handed back to consumers. Dynamic pricing on personal data is bad I think, but temporal dynamic pricing is actually very good for everyone and I hope it doesn't get thrown out by some reckless legislatio…

> If any store used dynamic pricing to expand their margins, the others would just do the same and compete away those margins once again, with the marginal gain being handed back to consumers. How would you do it if pricing is dynamic and changes every day? By the time competitor finds out about the price, you might have already reduced it, making it look like theirs is more expensive even after they applied discount…

Because the exact same is true in reverse

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#164

Post by soared »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #141
chronc6393 wrote: post #140

> The practice — supported by artificial intelligence and known as dynamic pricing or surveillance pricing — can lead to two consumers paying different amounts for the same item from the same retailer, at roughly the same time. Is an if-statement considered AI? So membership discounts should be banned?

What is a "membership discount" (assuming you don't mean coupons) in the context of a grocery store? Can you give an example of a major grocery store that has one? For what it's worth, > The bill clarifies that certain practices, such as promotional pricing, loyalty programs, or price differences based on objective costs like shipping, are not considered prohibited dynamic pricing.

Safeway/king soopers/albertsons all have members only lower prices or membership-only benefits

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#165

Post by estearum »

danlitt wrote: post #160
estearum wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hilariously first-order-effects thinking... If any store used dynamic pricing to expand their margins, the others would just do the same and compete away those margins once again, with the marginal gain being handed back to consumers. Dynamic pricing on personal data is bad I think, but temporal dynamic pricing is actually very good for everyone and I hope it doesn't get thrown out by some reckless legislatio…

Dynamic pricing based on personal data is not even a market, let alone a perfectly competitive one. Temporal dynamic pricing can mean almost anything, so might be ok (early bird lunch deal) or pure evil (bottled water now costs $100 because there is lead in the tap water).

Your evil case is not evil

The point of pricing water to that level is that it would induce other people who have access to bottled water to bring it to that market, as is desirable

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#166

Post by soared »

dlcarrier wrote: post #53

Grocery stores have smaller margins and more options compared to pretty much any industry, yet politicians seem to think they are the cause of all of our ills.

Al major chains in my area use Covid/etc to increase prices beyond what supply dictates to profit off of crises, except for king soopers.

https://qz.com/supermarket-prices-grocery-food-inflation-pan...

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#167

Post by jasonlotito »

hermannj314 wrote: post #139

[flagged]

This is coming off as something I would see in r/iamverysmart. I only see this coming from people that self-declared "independents" who try to play the "both sides" card and won't ever stand for anything. Which really just says everything you need to know. (If this isn't you, don't worry! The comment just comes across as an indicator.)

That you would bring this up here is odd. This topic is hardly deeply divisive, nor is it a new issue. That you think so is more a case of you not reading the news.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#168

Post by jasonlotito »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #152
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually seems like a pretty uniting issue. I haven't seen many politicians of any party openly come out in favor of the sort of price discrimination banned by this bill.

Came to say the same thing. Though calling it 'price discrimination' will bring out the MAGAs who will reflexively conclude that banning it must be woke/DEI and then demand to have it everywhere. Better to call it 'diverse pricing' to get the opposite reaction.

"diverse pricing" comes across as DEI pricing, too, what with the name. And the name is what's important, not the actual idea. If you want them to be against it, call it "Socialist Pricing" or if you want them to support it call it "Freedom Pricing." I know it's not indicative of either, but it just needs to sound bad or good.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#169

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

ReptileMan wrote: post #159
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a "membership discount" (assuming you don't mean coupons) in the context of a grocery store? Can you give an example of a major grocery store that has one? For what it's worth, > The bill clarifies that certain practices, such as promotional pricing, loyalty programs, or price differences based on objective costs like shipping, are not considered prohibited dynamic pricing.

[flagged]

Sure, I was asking about membership discounts (e.g. people who shop at this store and are "members" get 10% off everything compared to "non-members"), vs loyalty programs with individual product electronic coupons/promotions, which aren't covered by this bill.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#170

Post by jasonlotito »

chronc6393 wrote: post #140

> The practice — supported by artificial intelligence and known as dynamic pricing or surveillance pricing — can lead to two consumers paying different amounts for the same item from the same retailer, at roughly the same time. Is an if-statement considered AI? So membership discounts should be banned?

> So membership discounts should be banned?

No, not at all, not even close to what is being discussed here. You should probably do a LOT more research to understand what kind of pricing they are talking about here, and what AI is. None of these things are apparently things you are remotely aware of at all in any way for you to suggest it's merely "if-statement."

You can do it! I believe in you!

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