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EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

juraj.bednar.io

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Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#161

Post by Muromec »

jdrek1 wrote: post #84
Muromec wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but think people mean something else when they hear "digital ids" then what they are. Like I have a digital id from the government of the Netherlands that I use to log into their government systems to declare taxes or what not. I had an X509 certificate issued by Ukrainian government and have their app to do the same. It's bad somehow?

The problem is what follows. They will make it mandatory to use the electronic ID to do anything, resulting in total surveillance. And if you happen to land on their "bad" list (which eventually everyone will), you're locked out of life completely. No banking, no traveling, no communication with anyone, no buying food, nothing.

>The problem is what follows

Does it actually follow? It's there for 25 years in some European countries and "everyone" isn't on a government bad list dying of hunger.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#162

Post by Muromec »

izacus wrote: post #30
fc417fc802 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think even digital IDs will tend to exist as physical tokens? Also worth noting that you can have a digitized and cryptographically signed ID on "paper" which can serve much the same purpose (security, machine readability) as an electronic one. Where electronic tokens shine (for IDs or otherwise) is attesting to the physical possession of a single copy.

Many EU countries already issue a chipcard IDs which can be used to auth for government services (via NFC or a dedicated reader). So yeah, I'd expect those to move to a phone as an alternative to the card

Most passports in post 9/11 world have a chip. Thanks America!

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#163

Post by betaby »

Muromec wrote: post #161
jdrek1 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is what follows. They will make it mandatory to use the electronic ID to do anything, resulting in total surveillance. And if you happen to land on their "bad" list (which eventually everyone will), you're locked out of life completely. No banking, no traveling, no communication with anyone, no buying food, nothing.

>The problem is what follows Does it actually follow? It's there for 25 years in some European countries and "everyone" isn't on a government bad list dying of hunger.

Not sure if that sarcasm or you are serious. But yes, people have issues with access to banking in EU all the time.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#164

Post by kindkang2024 »

b112 wrote: post #61
grey-area wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see why they would bother with physical tokens nor would they be popular - things like passports are really quite expensive to manage and largely unecessary these days. An app or identity on people’s phone might be a good stopgap. However I suspect biometric methods of id verification will render carrying anything redundant long term. The databases for digital id already exist, they’re just not fully utilised…

I don’t see why they would bother with physical tokens nor would they be popular - things like passports are really quite expensive to manage and largely unecessary these days. OK. I'll bite. Why are they unnecessary? Passports have two things. They have information on them, which can be read by looking at them. And they have information on them in chip form, which can be scanned, and is also cryptographically signed…

— There should be no network connected databases of anything about anyone, in any form.

Couldn't agree more. The more we know, the more susceptible we are to bias and division.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#165

Post by ragall »

rglullis wrote: post #114
ragall wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security recordings fall into the category if legitimate need, and have to be deleted after a short while.

How is that enforced ?

It doesn't need to. Those recordings are "radioactive" and can't be used in any legitimate fashion except by intelligence agencies.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#166

Post by oe »

throwthrowuknow wrote: post #111
jeroenhd wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they? The only reasons to show ID I can think of is when watching porn or maybe when buying alcohol online, though I doubt stores will want to risk driving customers away with that.

Consider that stores create reward point systems specifically for the purpose of connecting a customer profile to purchases.

Yeah, the bigger chain stores already have most of this information. I don’t know if tying it to an actual ID would make much difference.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#167

Post by rightbyte »

gib444 wrote: post #145
maccard wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want an example of how this will be abused by companies, https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/12/airport-shops-...

And if you want an example of who has the power these days, I've encountered airport shops that are "take it leave it" (WHSmith in Spain in fact). I was told they can't require my boarding pass, but they won't sell me anything without it... (There was no language barrier)

Isn't that a tax thing on airports? I don't think it is the same problem.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#168

Post by sunnybeetroot »

Bender wrote: post #158

I do not know about others here but I will not be participating in anything that requires ID verification. Such domains will be blocked on my DoH servers both private and public though I doubt many here would want to use something other than Cloudflare DoH. Anyone else here planning on blocking sites that require age / ID verification? Are there any publicly available domain deny-lists that could be added to uBlock y…

I guess you can start by blocking every social media website?

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#169

Post by Bender »

sunnybeetroot wrote: post #168
Bender wrote: post #158

I do not know about others here but I will not be participating in anything that requires ID verification. Such domains will be blocked on my DoH servers both private and public though I doubt many here would want to use something other than Cloudflare DoH. Anyone else here planning on blocking sites that require age / ID verification? Are there any publicly available domain deny-lists that could be added to uBlock y…

I guess you can start by blocking every social media website?

Yes. I think I would block the social media sites that implement Age/ID checks as they implement them.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#170

Post by hiciu »

6r17 wrote: post #32
delusional wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "control" here? It's my understanding that EU law afford citizens the right to correct data that is wrong about them.

I mean that there is a big difference between a state automatically providing your data to any other state while having "their database disconnected" - and a human operator in the loop and an administrative verification of the appropriate access ; For example this would allow a state to refuse access to the PI of their citizens for cases that are not administratively documented. This forces the access audit sufficien…

Whats your source for the database sharing claim?

The way I understand it is more like tls certs, with each country managing their own root cert.

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