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The AI industry is discovering that the public hates it

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Re: The AI industry is discovering that the public hates it

#161
“Naturally, violence is never an answer, nor is it a politically effective tactic. But you also cannot ignore how the tone-deaf public messaging of the AI industry has helped to contribute to this reaction.”

And yet, as the will of the people is ignored to the benefit of but few, violence will become the answer.

Re: The AI industry is discovering that the public hates it

#162

I feel like their are (at least) three main critiques of AI, and I wish we could debate them separately, because I think they each have different resolutions. The first is the fear of job loss, and I feel like this is the most straightforward to deal with. Personally, I think the solution should be to share the productivity of AI with society at large, in particular since AI owes most of its abilities to training on…

Picasso famously said "Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."

You can't put things back in the bag. Perhaps the true underlying social problems are:

1. There's too many humans and not enough jobs.

2. The capitalist system only rewards profit seeking and cost externalization.

3. Our democratic representation myth is dead and buried.

4. Even in the developed world, middle-class security is gone.

So here's my question: given the current global system has failed and is clearly in its death throes, as a pan-national species how can we transition to a less mono-focal economic rationalism driven means of governance and self-organization without turning in to an autocracy or reinforcing negative nationalist bloc-level thinking that will tie us in to the same old human-thump-human stone age ape-ism and environmental cost externalization?

Perhaps AI can help in areas like improved education, improved media, proposals for improved government process or process transition for enhanced efficiency. Enforce transparency and accountability in the halls of power by reducing human process and corruption. Public auditable decision making and public auditable oversight. It's at least potential grounds for partial optimism. The best I can summon under present conditions. Of course, we want to avoid a dystopian global AI autocracy, the technocratic basis for which we have already well established, but if you view the present system as a dystopian human autocracy with the same technocratic basis (an increasingly rational perspective given recent events), then it starts to look more rosy.

Re: The AI industry is discovering that the public hates it

#163
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be going too far, as in your critiques assume the tech is further along than it actually is. There are three fundamental problems for mass AI adoption/AGI: 1. Lack of memory/continuity 2. Lack of agency 3. Lack of self-awareness Based on my understanding of the basic 'loop' of an LLM, solutions for these may be decades off or not possible. Which leads me to the fourth problem: 4. Lack of compute To ge…

[flagged]

A personal attack is not necessary. You don't seem to understand my perspective at all, please read some of my other comments.

Re: The AI industry is discovering that the public hates it

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you lost your $60,000 a year job due to this, do you really believe a basic income funded by it will make up that loss? It won't. Basic income in the US is usually proposed at $12k per year, which would add another $3 trillion to the budget. Do you think you can even get that just taxing these companies? I don't. People who bring up basic income need to get serious about the numbers involved because I never see it…

And even if you did get the 60k and never can find work again are you gonna be happy about the next door neighbor working for 120k and getting his 60k on top?

All the proposals I’ve seen would set the marginal tax rate on the 120 so high that his earnings would end up more like 40k from the 120k job and then he gets his 60. So, still some benefit to working, but a very progressive tax rate on higher earnings. Not sure I agree with this, but that is what I’ve seen.

Re: The AI industry is discovering that the public hates it

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be going too far, as in your critiques assume the tech is further along than it actually is. There are three fundamental problems for mass AI adoption/AGI: 1. Lack of memory/continuity 2. Lack of agency 3. Lack of self-awareness Based on my understanding of the basic 'loop' of an LLM, solutions for these may be decades off or not possible. Which leads me to the fourth problem: 4. Lack of compute To ge…

All three of these problems are thoroughly solved by widely available tools.

They are? Is your LLM ready to run your organization without further input from you or anyone? Do you realize that "memory" requires eating your hilariously small context window?

Have you not had a discussion with Opus where it insists it is correct about something it is objectively wrong about for several turns?

Re: The AI industry is discovering that the public hates it

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All three of these problems are thoroughly solved by widely available tools.

They are? Is your LLM ready to run your organization without further input from you or anyone? Do you realize that "memory" requires eating your hilariously small context window? Have you not had a discussion with Opus where it insists it is correct about something it is objectively wrong about for several turns?

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Re: The AI industry is discovering that the public hates it

#167
post #78

Not really surprising. I would guess this goes beyond just the AI and jobs issue. Your average person sees AI all over the place in contexts they didn’t ask for it but can’t escape. Social media is covered with AI garbage (e.g., AI generated videos). Podcasts are being flooded with AI garbage that are pretty overt grabs for ad impressions where quality is … not important. Appliances and consumer devices are getting A…

Yes. If my only AI experiences were the ones you list, along with Google’s search summary, and the modern Clippy, I’d hate it too.

My wife was shocked to learn how much she liked Claude after these forced experiences with AI.

Re: The AI industry is discovering that the public hates it

#169
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job guarantees and higher minimum wages are just UBI with extra steps, while lowering retirement age is just conditional UBI by another name. If you're giving people more money in exchange for nothing (or nothing of any value to anyone, as in the case of a job guarantee), it's effectively indistinguishable from UBI.

"When our grandparents built the hoover dam, the lincoln tunnel and the triborough bridge with a job guarantee that was just money for nothing - UBI with extra steps." ^ this would be an accurate representation of your opinion then?

That job guarantees exceptionally produce useful things doesn't mean that they don't overwhelmingly produce useless things, or things that are more expensive than they're worth.

Re: The AI industry is discovering that the public hates it

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All three of these problems are thoroughly solved by widely available tools.

They are? Is your LLM ready to run your organization without further input from you or anyone? Do you realize that "memory" requires eating your hilariously small context window? Have you not had a discussion with Opus where it insists it is correct about something it is objectively wrong about for several turns?

That seems like an unreasonably high standard. I like to think that I have memory, agency, and self awareness, but I'm not ready to run my organization without further input from anyone.

> Do you realize that "memory" requires eating your hilariously small context window?

I do! LLMs are structured differently than humans, so the component we call "memory" corresponds to what humans call "short-term memory"; practical long-term memory for an LLM looks much more like what a human would call "let me write this down". But you can and commercially available systems do load it into context on demand when it's needed for some problem or another.

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