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There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

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161–170 of 179 posts

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#161
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inflection point was 2012, when AlexNet [0], a deep convolutional neural net, achieved a step-change improvement in the ImageNet classification competition. After seeing AlexNet’s results, all of the major ML imaging labs switched to deep CNNs, and other approaches almost completely disappeared from SOTA imaging competitions. Over the next few years, deep neural networks took over in other ML domains as well. The…

> Even a mouse needs hundreds of millions of neurons to do what a mouse does. Under the very light assumption that a mouse doesn’t have neurons it doesn’t need, a mouse needs whatever number of neurons it has to do what a mouse does, so that’s not saying much. Reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_by_number_of_n... , an ant has only 250k neurons and many reptiles can do with around 10 million. That pa…

Mice do a hell of a lot more socialization than lizards, and mammalian socialization is more complex per individual (more competition, feinting, theory-of-mind-like strategies) than the eusocial insect strategies of "my body is the swarm, I just happen to be the limb I have direct control over".

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#162

As someone who works in the area, this provides a decent summary of the most popular research items. The most useful and impressive part is the set of open problems at the end, which just about covers all of the main research directions in the field. The skepticism I'm seeing in the comments really highlights how little of this work is trickling down to the public, which is very sad to see. While it can offer few mat…

I'm constantly surprised how many people are critical of research to understand neural nets, immediately telling me they are black boxes and hopeless to understand. I believe it's a consequence of being portrayed as the opposite of (classically interpretable) linear regression. Many people additionally have little patience for research when the engineering is moving so quickly. Even many interpretability researchers…

I'm not in the field but I think it's because historically neural nets were looked down and deemed unpromising because they lacked understanding, compared to Symbolic AI or SVM for example. Since the Deep Learning revolution, which is engineering driven, the trend has inverted, research to understand and theory are seen as the things that hindered progress with neural nets in the past.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#163

As someone who works in the area, this provides a decent summary of the most popular research items. The most useful and impressive part is the set of open problems at the end, which just about covers all of the main research directions in the field. The skepticism I'm seeing in the comments really highlights how little of this work is trickling down to the public, which is very sad to see. While it can offer few mat…

> the question "why do neural networks work better than other models?" is getting pretty close to a solid answer. This would be great, as from the "classical" perspective, the results of over-parametization and potentially other parts of NN architecture make no sense (to me, at least). I do accept that double-descent appears to empirically work, but it really, really shouldn't. In fact, as someone who's a big fan of…

Hastie was actually lead author of an excellent paper that discusses the underlying phenomenon in the context of least-squares linear regression: https://arxiv.org/abs/1903.08560

It really isn't so mysterious once you begin to examine how the rule of thumb for the bias-variance tradeoff (remember that it is the relationship with model size that is curious, not the tradeoff itself) came to be. The easiest ways to arrive at this rule are through an information criterion like the AIC or BIC, where the model size appears in the penalty term for the log-likelihood. These criteria have a bunch of assumptions, all of which are crucial, and absolutely none of which apply for neural networks. The biggest one is that the only limiting regime is in the size of the dataset, so there are vastly more data than model parameters. Neural networks have parameter counts within a constant ratio of the number of datapoints. Another is that the model has a non-singular Hessian in a neighbourhood of the optimum. Neural networks do not have this. Once you abandon the rule of thumb and actually do the math in the appropriate limiting regimes, there's no contradiction anymore.

I've found the biggest mystery for people though is the fact that performance actually _improves_ after the interpolation threshold. This seems insane if you come at it from the point of view that the model "could have done anything" if there are more parameters than data. But this isn't true at all. The fact that you have obtained _a solution_ means that you imposed some implicit bias that guided which solution you end up in. For linear regression, that is often the minimum L2 norm solution, which _literally_ minimizes the variance keeping all else fixed. If you add more parameters to play with, obviously it should be able to minimize the variance even further, right? If the bias is zero and the variance is reduced, you get better performance. If you use a different optimizer than gradient descent, you can end up at the minimum L1 norm solution (effectively LASSO), which is well-known to perform really well regardless of the number of parameters.

Of course, linear regression is not neural network regression, and the situation in deep learning is far more complicated. But the same idea applies. Every single part of the training procedure is carefully designed to bias the obtained solution toward something with minimal variance. Stochastic optimizers (even dropout) settle in wide minima which have smaller variances. Some optimizers prioritize stronger correlations in the weights. Bottlenecks in the architecture induce low-rank solutions. Data augmentation induce known invariances that reduce variance along those directions. Convolutional designs induce regularity with respect to the input space. Neural networks are not magic; they are the product of hundreds of intentional design decisions over decades. When you increase the size of the model, all of these features are exacerbated.

Quantifying all of this in the theory is difficult because there are a lot of moving parts. But if you study a simplified model and consider each mechanism individually, the picture becomes pretty clear.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#164
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I would add a third factor to compute and datasets: the lego-like aspect of NN that enabled scalable OSS DL frameworks. I did some ML in mid 2000s, and it was a PITA to reuse other people code (when available at all). You had some well known libraries for SVM, for HMM you had to use HTK that had a weird license, and otherwise looking at experiments required you to reimplement stuff yourself. Late 2000s had a…

I think your post may have more acronyms than any other post I have ever read on hn. Do you have a guide to which specific things you are talking about with each acronym? Deep Learning and Machine Learning are obvious but some of the others I can’t follow at all - they could be so many different things.

fair, somebody else clarified already !

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#166

As someone who works in the area, this provides a decent summary of the most popular research items. The most useful and impressive part is the set of open problems at the end, which just about covers all of the main research directions in the field. The skepticism I'm seeing in the comments really highlights how little of this work is trickling down to the public, which is very sad to see. While it can offer few mat…

> the question "why do neural networks work better than other models?" is getting pretty close to a solid answer. This would be great, as from the "classical" perspective, the results of over-parametization and potentially other parts of NN architecture make no sense (to me, at least). I do accept that double-descent appears to empirically work, but it really, really shouldn't. In fact, as someone who's a big fan of…

Check out Andrew Gordon Wilson's excellent paper "Deep Learning is Not so Mysterious or Different" for a discussion of the ways in which existing learning theory does and doesn't work neural nets.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2503.02113

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#167

As someone who works in the area, this provides a decent summary of the most popular research items. The most useful and impressive part is the set of open problems at the end, which just about covers all of the main research directions in the field. The skepticism I'm seeing in the comments really highlights how little of this work is trickling down to the public, which is very sad to see. While it can offer few mat…

Do neural networks work better than other models? They can definitely model a wider class of problems than traditional ML models (images being the canonical example). However, I thought where a like for like comparison was possible they tend to worse than gradient boosting.

On tabular datasets less than ~250k samples, tabular foundation models now outperform boosting. Of course it remains to be seen how they'll scale to significantly larger datasets as the models improve.

https://huggingface.co/spaces/TabArena/leaderboard

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#168
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an analogy with statistical mechanics. It's not crazy.

Sane & interesting enough to have been disproven, by Boaz Barak iirc. Maybe not surprising since simulated annealing never achieved the results of gradient descent + backprop.

You might be trying to be too literal.

What makes statistical mechanics so brilliant is that it takes first principle ideas (particle energies + ensemble) to derive macroscopic thermodynamic rules, all of which were originally derived from observation.

What the OP is proposing is a mathematical analysis of SGD + generic deep learning architectures might be able to derive the rules we have empirically derived from experiments in model training.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm constantly surprised how many people are critical of research to understand neural nets, immediately telling me they are black boxes and hopeless to understand. I believe it's a consequence of being portrayed as the opposite of (classically interpretable) linear regression. Many people additionally have little patience for research when the engineering is moving so quickly. Even many interpretability researchers…

I'm not in the field but I think it's because historically neural nets were looked down and deemed unpromising because they lacked understanding, compared to Symbolic AI or SVM for example. Since the Deep Learning revolution, which is engineering driven, the trend has inverted, research to understand and theory are seen as the things that hindered progress with neural nets in the past.

Part of the issue with neural nets is that historically they were next to impossible to train. ADAM, BatchNorm/LayerNorm, initialization schemes, and GPUs for pure speed really helped to change all of that.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#170
Maybe two adjacent threads worth pulling — both probably familiar to people who actually do this for a living: (1) Hopfield's 1982 PNAS paper already framed learning as energy descent on a quadratic form, with phase transitions, attractors and eigenmodes falling out of it. A lot of what mechanistic interpretability is empirically rediscovering reads, to me, like restatement of structure that was already there in principle — just without the scale to bite. (2) NTK + neural collapse together seem to suggest that at infinite width a network is essentially a kernel ridge regressor, and the kernel's eigenstructure constrains what it can or cannot learn. If that holds, it's a theory in a modest, Bedauesque sense — not predictive in detail, but structurally constraining. The open piece is presumably whether finite-width corrections preserve enough of that structure to inherit any of its consequences. Happy to be told I'm misreading either.
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