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Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

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Re: Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

#161

Post by ranger_danger »

cestith wrote: post #53
cael450 wrote: post #36

> Half of the world’s aspartame is made by Ajinomoto of Tokyo—the same company that first brought us MSG back in 1909. There is nothing wrong with MSG either

Indeed. It turns out that “MSG headaches” are just high sodium level headaches, either through dehydration, unbalanced electrolytes, elevated blood pressure or whatever else higher than normal sodium levels cause headaches. The same headache could be caused by salt. MSG actually makes recipes require less of other flavor ingredients, including salt. It’s also often found in dishes that still contain relatively massiv…

I drank sodas with aspartame just fine for many decades. Then one day they suddenly started giving me migraines any time I had one, so I had to quit cold turkey. No other amount of caffeine, regular sodas, salty foods, MSG-laden meals etc. seem to trigger it though, and I have no idea why.

Re: Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

#162

Post by ch4s3 »

cestith wrote: post #159
ch4s3 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elevated brain glutamate levels are associated with migraines, but there’s no solid evidence that dietary glutamate is a trigger for migraines. The number of people avoiding it is not evidence of anything other than public perception. Elimination diets are also super impressive.

I agree on all your points. If someone suffers from migraines, though, it’s worth trying figuring out plausible triggers even if the evidence isn’t really solid. It’s important not to conflate ingredients when doing an elimination diet, though. Separating restaurants or prepackaged foods at home that use MSG from those that use a lot of salt (or preservatives, or artificial dyes, or “natural flavors”, or any number o…

There's a pretty good finding here[1] about elimination diets being inappropriate for most patients. Basically without any diagnosis of something like celiac, allergy, etc you have a high risk of misidentifying foods as causes because the co-occur with non food triggers. The literature just seems super weak for most alleged dietary triggers.

[1]https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12609589/#sec8-nutr...

Re: Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

#163

Post by jiaosdjf »

latch wrote: post #156
jiaosdjf wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What in your view is the single strongest scientific conclusion supporting your statement that "it's safe"?

Are you moving the goal post? I generally trust health agencies, more so when they all agree.

No I'm asking what language/sentence you are referring to that says "it's safe"

Re: Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

#164

Post by ranger_danger »

cestith wrote: post #132
bennettnate5 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a family member who has discovered through gradual process of elimination that she gets migraines from MSG, aspartame and yeast extract. "just sodium headaches" doesn't really apply to her case; simply chewing a piece of gum that has aspartame, or eating a piece of meat cooked with MSG in her salad is enough to trigger them. I agree in the general sense with your comment and the article that there's no widespr…

Aspartame is also a trigger, but the fact that one person has multiple triggers doesn’t mean they are related at all. Now you’re right that MSG is more than sodium. Sodium can be a headache trigger, including migraines. Glutamate is also a migraine trigger and a fairly common one. It doesn’t happen to be one for me. However, it is a neurotransmitter that is involved in pain signaling. It’s understandable how it could…

For me aspartame only just recently started giving me headaches, and it happens every time now, but not MSG or salt. No idea why.

Re: Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

#165

Post by aesthesia »

jamal-kumar wrote: post #94
cael450 wrote: post #36

> Half of the world’s aspartame is made by Ajinomoto of Tokyo—the same company that first brought us MSG back in 1909. There is nothing wrong with MSG either

Crazy how most of the negative hype around that, total nonsense people have believed for decades now, started from some doctor making a joke paper in the New England Journal of Medicine because one of his other doctor friends was saying that orthopaedic surgeons were too stupid to get something published in there and bet like 10$ that to my recollection didn't even get paid (although this says 2024 I swear I remember…

The same This American Life episode raised serious doubts about Dr. Steel's claims, which is mentioned in the article you link:

> When reporters tried to corroborate Dr. Steel’s claims, however, holes started appearing, according to the This American Life episode. Chief among them: There actually was a real Dr. Robert Ho Man Kwok, and his biographical details seemed to match those provided in the letter, like his professional title, the name of his research institute, and the date of his move to the US.

> While both Dr. Steel and Dr. Ho Man Kwok had died by the time the digging began in earnest, their surviving family members were able to shed some light on the situation. Dr. Ho Man Kwok’s children and former colleagues were adamant that Dr. Ho Man Kwok had in fact written the letter. Meanwhile, Dr. Steel’s daughter said her father was a lifelong prankster who loved pulling one over on people. With this testimony in mind, the reporters came to the conclusion that Dr. Ho Man Kwok was most likely the true author and Dr. Steel had taken credit for years as an elaborate practical joke.

Re: Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

#166

Post by ranger_danger »

WarmWash wrote: post #52
tptacek wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not?

The larger the impact of the information you are sharing, the more clicks and follows you will get. People trying to become content creators quickly realize that pointing out a 30cm rock headed towards Earth gets no money, err, attention. So they drop the 30cm part, call it a massive chunk of rock that will rip through the atmosphere, and suddenly they are getting much more money, sorry, attention. This is what makes…

Is it really so "depraved" if they are simply smart enough to notice what generates revenue and acting on that?

Of course we could argue that making money off people is wrong, but I think that is a losing battle in a capitalist society, which is most of the world right now from what I understand.

Re: Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

#167

Post by bennettnate5 »

JCattheATM wrote: post #112
bennettnate5 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a family member who has discovered through gradual process of elimination that she gets migraines from MSG, aspartame and yeast extract. "just sodium headaches" doesn't really apply to her case; simply chewing a piece of gum that has aspartame, or eating a piece of meat cooked with MSG in her salad is enough to trigger them. I agree in the general sense with your comment and the article that there's no widespr…

Sounds like an allergy.

I definitely wouldn't be surprised if that were the case

Re: Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

#168

Post by hagbard_c »

soopypoos wrote: post #148
hagbard_c wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly can be. You're free to jump off a cliff but you'll have to suffer the consequences.

maybe I like the consequences

In that case feel free to jump. Eat candy bars, drink sweetened coloured preserved bubbly water and do all those other things you want. Isn't freedom great? As long as your freedom does not curtail another's feel free to do what you want within the bounds of the law. I'll even go so far as to add that some laws can be violated without consequences because they're outdated, superfluous, bought and paid for by those who stand to profit from their establishment or otherwise not conducive to a thriving society. Of course there is that problem with the consequences of your and my freedom: if you decide to indulge in too much freedom and as a result of that incur large medical bills from cliff-jumping, the mentioned candy bar and sweetened water diet and other similarly unhealthy habits it would not be fair to limit my freedom to do what I want with my hard earned money by claiming the tax payer (where I live) or insurance customer (where most people on this forum live) need to pay for your habits. As it stands this is the case but it doesn't have to be that way. Maybe there should be extra insurance premiums for habitual cliff jumpers and candy bar customers? Of course this is not easy to implement since it would not be fair to those eating one of those bars every other month or people who jump from 2 m high cliffs.

Re: Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

#169

Post by ubercow13 »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #154
wasabi991011 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most soft drinks are not made with artificial sweeteners. Where are you that the only available soft drinks are artificially sweetened? Never been to a restaurant or fast food place or grocery store that only carried the diet/zero and didn't carry the standard coke or pepsi.

> Most soft drinks are not made with artificial sweeteners. All soft drinks are contaminated with artificial sweeteners.

What artificial sweetener is in regular Coke?

Re: Aspartame is not that bad? (2022)

#170

Post by bennettnate5 »

ch4s3 wrote: post #110
bennettnate5 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a family member who has discovered through gradual process of elimination that she gets migraines from MSG, aspartame and yeast extract. "just sodium headaches" doesn't really apply to her case; simply chewing a piece of gum that has aspartame, or eating a piece of meat cooked with MSG in her salad is enough to trigger them. I agree in the general sense with your comment and the article that there's no widespr…

> discovered through gradual process of elimination that she gets migraines from MSG This is definitely not true. There is no biological pathway that can do this. MSG is nearly identical to the glutamic acid in other foods. If it were true they'd be unable to tolerate parmesan cheese, soy sauce, aged meats, tomatoes, mushrooms, and seaweed.

> This is definitely not true. There is no biological pathway that can do this

Nevertheless, it continues to give her migraines even in small portions where other foods don't. I don't doubt it could be some byproduct from the process of MSG salt's synthesis or cooking with it rather than the actual glutamic acid, or some allergy as others have suggested.

I wouldn't be so strong as to categorically say that MSG can't cause migraines in any of the human race as you so claim though. There's so much we don't know about human biological mechanisms in niche cases; even water can cause allergic reactions in certain individuals (see Aquagenic Urticaria). What is true generally is not always true specifically when it comes to human health.

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