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Where did my taxes go?

wherethefuckdidmytaxesgo.com

161–170 of 231 posts

Re: Where did my taxes go?

#161
post #129

Love it - great application of publicly-available data. Also ref https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47420307 US govt provided public debt resources. By the way, the 1040 instructions have a pie chart like this (ref https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf , page 122). Not that most people do taxes themselves, or have a reason to read to page 122 of instructions for a single form. But still it's there and perhaps…

Very painful to see Corporate income taxes @ 8%, vs. Personal income taxes @ 36%. on the income pie chart^

However, not at all surprised. That stat would arguably make the most material difference to voters, if only they knew about it.

Edit: Adds another degree of pain when you consider that the CEO-to-worker pay ratio reached 281-to-1 in 2024.

Re: Where did my taxes go?

#162
post #153
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like increasing your going out budget at the same time as moderating your excessive drinking. The more money that's up for grabs, the higher the incentives for fraud and general abuse. I think the people that believe in a more efficient welfare state should look to reallocate the money. No one would complain. Instead it's always the promise that just [X] more billion from [billionaire] and we could solve homel…

>I think the people that believe in a more efficient welfare state should look to reallocate the money. No one would complain. Are you simply calling the entire government a "welfare state" or do you believe that something like military spending is off the table for making more efficient? Because people very obviously would complain about shifting military spending to social programs and military spending is almost c…

Military spending has been trending downwards the entire time I’ve been alive. All that’s happened is increased spending elsewhere and even more debt. With very little apparent improvement to those social services spending outcomes. Usually the the opposite.

I might agree with cutting military spending if it’s an actual measurable impact to my finances. But I sure wouldn’t be for reallocating it to the black hole that is other federal spending. Fix the outcomes first. We already spend more on healthcare than most of those social democracies. Show me similar outcomes per dollar spent and then we can have a conversation about increasing it. Until then, it’s just more money funneled to the fraud and grift machine. Not that the military isn’t that too, but the difference to me is once you get the population “hooked” on such budgets you can never reduce it. The military is at least able to be reduced as shown in the past 30 years. Everything else is growing faster than those reductions.

I would also be generally for cutting military budget if it was 100% reallocated to reducing the debt. But that’s almost impossible since money is fungible.

TLDR; we’ve already tried reallocating and utterly failed at showing any reasonable outcomes.

Re: Where did my taxes go?

#163
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Social Security is almost completely disbursement charges but those disbursements aren't means tested so even quite wealthy individuals receive them. Only to those who paid into the system and far less than they personally could have earned on investing the same dollars.

Yeah, one of the problems I have with taxes is that if I pay $100 into taxes I don’t get $100 of value back. Everyone should get at least as much as they put in back. Also, some other people should get more back. But we shouldn’t spend more than we make as a government.

Assuming the presence of a sovereign wealth fund which does work somewhat logically for programs like social security - that would make sense. The government should sensibly invest money they're holding onto... however, it's unrealistic to ever expect the government to tolerate a level of risk and thus a rate of return above what you're personally comfortable with so it's unrealistic to assume that the government will be as efficient with money as you'd personally be if they'd never taken that money.

Additionally, a lot of these programs will pay out beyond what you've personally put in - programs like Medicaid are nearly entirely social subsidies to ease poverty and financial distress, so I'm not certain where you'd find the money to pay for them if not looking at either other people's taxes or debt.

As a taxpayer I expect the money I give to the government to be evident in some social projects but I don't personally expect that for each dollar I pay that I'd see a dollar in benefit to me personally. I have a belief that I indirectly benefit from the expenditure of charitable safety net programs even if I never expect to collect from them directly - the improvement in the lives of those around me is to my personal benefit by making society more just and egalitarian as well as reducing the incentive for crime which is a difficult to measure but observable direct benefit to myself.

The fact that so much of our budget goes to debt servicing is probably my personal biggest objection as it is effectively just a wealth extraction from our earn national budget to some select individuals.

Re: Where did my taxes go?

#164
post #162
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the people that believe in a more efficient welfare state should look to reallocate the money. No one would complain. Are you simply calling the entire government a "welfare state" or do you believe that something like military spending is off the table for making more efficient? Because people very obviously would complain about shifting military spending to social programs and military spending is almost c…

Military spending has been trending downwards the entire time I’ve been alive. All that’s happened is increased spending elsewhere and even more debt. With very little apparent improvement to those social services spending outcomes. Usually the the opposite. I might agree with cutting military spending if it’s an actual measurable impact to my finances. But I sure wouldn’t be for reallocating it to the black hole tha…

Maybe we should approach this from the opposite angle. If it isn't military spending, what do you think the differentiator is between the US and those "social democracies" that OP mentioned? Do you think Americans are inherently more corrupt than the French?

Re: Where did my taxes go?

#165
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not realistic to believe that we can become a nice wholesome European country if we just raise taxes a bit. The extra money will just be squandered and stolen. Why, in your view, doesn't the same thing happen to them?

Simply put the people in those countries who spend the money care about the people who gave them the money. They view themselves as stewards of these resources and genuinely want to spend them optimally to ensure the best return for everyone in society including future generations. That isn't the case in America and will never be the case. America is a failed state.

I would not put this on America being a failed state. Rather the more 'successful' European countries are far more homogenous in demographics than America ever will be. In Denmark, nearly everyone has the same cultural background and similar values, and are striving for a relatively unified vision/goal for the country. In America, there is such an overwhelming diversity in values and cultures, and added animosity between different groups of people that there is more infighting over government&private resources and less efficient use of them.

Re: Where did my taxes go?

#166
post #153
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like increasing your going out budget at the same time as moderating your excessive drinking. The more money that's up for grabs, the higher the incentives for fraud and general abuse. I think the people that believe in a more efficient welfare state should look to reallocate the money. No one would complain. Instead it's always the promise that just [X] more billion from [billionaire] and we could solve homel…

>I think the people that believe in a more efficient welfare state should look to reallocate the money. No one would complain. Are you simply calling the entire government a "welfare state" or do you believe that something like military spending is off the table for making more efficient? Because people very obviously would complain about shifting military spending to social programs and military spending is almost c…

Of course you should make military spending more efficient. But again, to avoid partisan bickering, you should shift spending in the category. Don't cut waste in department A and allocate to department B. Maybe shift from buying fewer jets and more drones. It doesn't have to be political, it's not a money problem. Government takes more than enough money.

Again, percentage of government money that goes to social programs is less relative to military, but only as a percentage. Look at things like spending on public healthcare (Medicare / Medicaid) or public education, America spends as much as social democracies in absolute terms. Just relative terms its less because we're a wealthy country and produce a lot of wealth that we tax. It's not a money problem

Re: Where did my taxes go?

#168
Where did my taxes go?

Unpopular answer but ask your favorite AI to show the history of how taxes increased in the USA since 1913 and what those taxes were spent on. Then ask how often such programs are ever removed and the taxes are reduced and surplus given back to the people.

Related recent discussion of taxes in California [1]

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inOci0iH4Q8 [video][15 mins]

Re: Where did my taxes go?

#169
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put the people in those countries who spend the money care about the people who gave them the money. They view themselves as stewards of these resources and genuinely want to spend them optimally to ensure the best return for everyone in society including future generations. That isn't the case in America and will never be the case. America is a failed state.

I would not put this on America being a failed state. Rather the more 'successful' European countries are far more homogenous in demographics than America ever will be. In Denmark, nearly everyone has the same cultural background and similar values, and are striving for a relatively unified vision/goal for the country. In America, there is such an overwhelming diversity in values and cultures, and added animosity bet…

> Rather the more 'successful' European countries are far more homogenous in demographics than America ever will be. In Denmark, nearly everyone has the same cultural background and similar values, and are striving for a relatively unified vision/goal for the country.

Can you explain this reasoning without implying American political leaders (or perhaps broader society) are racist?

As a counterpoint France, Germany, Canada and Australia are far from homogeneous, but offer far stronger social safety nets than the US. IIRC, 1 in 4 Australians were born elsewhere.

Re: Where did my taxes go?

#170
post #144
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many Americans do not realize how much is spent on debt interest payments, which are a tidy source of income for rich people.

I don’t think Americans would enjoy the alternative of defaulting on that debt, or the counterfactual of not having raised that debt in the first place But yeah, having to pay your debts do suck

But they didn’t scream when that debt ballooned very recently.

Debt payments and defense budget increases add up.

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