Live data from Hacker News

Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

theregister.com

161–170 of 237 posts

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#163

I think the biggest lesson here is to back up. The reason for losing access to the phone is amazingly dumb but it could have fallen down the stairs for basically the same effect. And do your could backups cross-provider. You never know what the "big players" are going to pull, and your lifetime customer value is less than the cost of a single support call.

This is exactly the reason why I keep all my shit on an SD card despite Google deliberately making the external storage experience as painful as possible: slow access, broken writes, failed unmounts, no filesystem repair. Literally every time I restart my phone I need to put the card to my PC and repair the filesystem. Also, same card works extremely well when plugged into PC via random cheap USB card reader. On PCs…

GNU/Linux exists on mobile, too. Sent from my Librem 5.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#164
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won’t that wipe all the user data?

He can upgrade, but not downgrade, for security integrity.

Doesn't this mean that no matter how securely your phone is locked, Apple (and probably the three-letter agencies) can always unlock it by installing an appropriate update?

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#165
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won’t that wipe all the user data?

He can upgrade, but not downgrade, for security integrity.

People often seem to ignore that Availability is part of the security triad.

If I burn someone’s wallet and throw the ashes to the wind nobody can pickpocket them for it. Secure.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#166

As a non-English speaker I can really relate to this. I think the real mistake was Apple allowing to enter a non-ASCII password in the first place. E.g. on macOS the password fields have been locked to English character set, and I'm not sure why it changed on iOS.

> As a non-English speaker I can really relate to this.I think the real mistake was Apple allowing to enter a non-ASCII password in the first place. As a non-English speaker (Czech, actually), it is clear to me to not use non-ASCII characters in passwords, or generally not use characters that are at different position on default English keyboard and locally used keyboards, i.e. use only ASCII alphanumeric chars excep…

> keyboard setting is per-user setting

Do you think most users know this?

Also, most devices nowadays ARE single user. And most (all?) OSes allow you to use alternative keyboards at the user-selection screen.

Also, all orgs recommend special characters in passwords. Czech keyboards default to accented letters on the top row instead of numbers, so why wouldn't your average Czech use those?

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#167
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He can upgrade, but not downgrade, for security integrity.

Doesn't this mean that no matter how securely your phone is locked, Apple (and probably the three-letter agencies) can always unlock it by installing an appropriate update?

Not necessarily. If the secret is protected in the secure element against something only you can provide (physical presence of RFID, password, biometric etc) then it is ok.

BUT you must trust the entire Apple trusted chain to protect you.

That is a rather big BUT.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#169
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that. The group of people you're talking about are those who have their phone maliciously stolen by people who are actively working to hack/exploit their way into the devices and then actively exploit the information stored on them. That is a utterly negligible percent of users, or even of users who have their phone stolen. The overwhelming majority of thieves of intent move the devices onto professional orgs…

In this world stolen iPhones are mostly worthless because they can’t easily be wiped without the password. In your world, they could be. I imagine iPhone thefts would go way up. They’re worth $1000 and we just carry them everywhere - if they were easily resellble it would be a very obvious quick-money theft opportunity.

iPhones are currently the primary target of thieves by an overwhelmingly wide margin. There are many ways to wipe them and its an industry in its own right. One of the most common, as always, is simple social engineering. They contact the victim posing as Apple, convince them to reveal their credentials in this way or that, wipe the device and away they go. If that fails they're stripped down and sold for parts, which is also reasonably lucrative.

I don't know for certain why thieves are generally not typically interested in abusing user data, but I'd imagine it's because the penalties if caught would go way up. That'd go from what is generally just petty theft, which carries a slap on the wrist, to wire fraud and a whole slew of other charges, which can leave people spending most of the rest of their life in prison.

Re: Apple update looks like Czech mate for locked-out iPhone user

#170
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unicode was introduced to solve that very problem, and it largely does. In the olden times, even ASCII wasn’t necessarily a safe bet, as many countries used their own slight variation of ASCII. For example, Japan had the Yen sign in place of the backslash. In a fictional ASCII world, Apple could have decided to remove the Yen key from the Japanese lockscreen keyboard.

> Unicode was introduced to solve that very problem, and it largely does. What? Unicode doesn't address the problem at all. Your emoji password will look completely different depending on the encoding you use. We have multiple popular encodings right now... but instead of software that lets us specify which encoding we want to use to interpret a document, we have software that intentionally prohibits us from doing th…

Unicode is the code points. Of course you have to normalize on one encoding for password hashing (and UTF-8 is the canonical choice for that, because interfaces to hash implementations are byte-based), but that’s not an issue of end-user input. The goal of Unicode was to be able to roundtrip the existing encodings through it, and it achieved that goal.

> That would have had no effect other than momentary user confusion. In that world, someone with a yen sign in their password would, after the keyboard update, have a backslash in their password, because their password never changed. Only the label changed.

No. The analogon to TFA would be that the old keyboard would have a Yen key and no backslash key, and the new keyboard would have no Yen key and still no backslash key. The point is that the Yen key would be removed because its character code is not part of the shared common subset of ASCII. ASCII doesn’t imply that you have a keyboard capable of entering all 128 codes. Just like Unicode doesn’t imply that your keyboard allows you to input arbitrary code points.

Post reply on HN