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81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

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Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#161

Post by jjulius »

KumaBear wrote: post #153
jjulius wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They're trying to prevent people who purchase the season pass to almost exclusively resell tickets to individual games. Why do you need a smartphone to do this when a white list checked against ID at the door would suffice? As the other respondent says, you either generate a badge for the passholder, or have an approved list of guests that can use the season pass if the passholder chooses to offer it to others.

Generating badges has loopholes. (Trust me I’ve used them). And IDing every person can be a mission on itself. Pretty sure they will just start using biometrics in the next decade with or without your consent.

>Generating badges has loopholes.

This seems to be an area where people will always find loopholes. Should this be a race-to-the-bottom in an attempt to make the most foolproof system possible, or do we at some point accept that maybe there's never going to be a perfect way to do this?

>And IDing every person can be a mission on itself.

I've worked the door at venues of various sizes, so it's not like I suggested this from ignorance. What we're talking about doesn't need to be "every person", just a specific set of ticketholders.

>Pretty sure they will just start using biometrics in the next decade with or without your consent.

I know I'm just me, speaking for me, and am a sample size of 1 that doesn't look like the general population in this regard, but there's no "with or without my consent" if I decide to opt out of going to games entirely. It'll be a cold day in hell before I give someone my biometrics just so I can watch someone try and hit a ball.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#162

Post by trollbridge »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #50
pc86 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not. If you are physically incapable of operating a piece of technology, the ADA covers reasonable accommodations for that. If you are simply unwilling to learn how to use a piece of technology, it doesn't and shouldn't cover that. Being a luddite is not a protected class.

I agree with your assertion, but it made me think of a question. Are Amish and Mennonites religiously protected luddites?

They don't really receive special accommodation for not using technology outside of being allowed to submit some required tax forms on paper instead of e-filing them, the logic being that the government requires them to do so under pain of punishment, so the government has to find a way to let them do it without violating their religious beliefs.

But there is not a general accommodation provided.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#163

Post by radiator »

pc86 wrote: post #46
Molitor5901 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really good point. I'm surprised the box office cannot print it for him for a fee at Will Call, which might be the solution here.

No, it's not. If you are physically incapable of operating a piece of technology, the ADA covers reasonable accommodations for that. If you are simply unwilling to learn how to use a piece of technology, it doesn't and shouldn't cover that. Being a luddite is not a protected class.

Look at how conveniently you chose to ignore the fan's age, attributing his behaviour to unwilling or luddite! Or do you really have absolutely no idea, what it means to be 81 years old? Still, I would bet you have met at least some people of such an age.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#164

Post by trollbridge »

snarf21 wrote: post #82
jjtheblunt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your assertion, but it made me think of a question. Are Amish and Mennonites religiously protected luddites?

Most Amish under 30 have secret cell phones. It would only be the oldest generations without them. There are even lots of wink & nod arrangements where they may even have electricity in some outbuilding but they unplug it when elder comes to visit. It also depends on the Order as some are more strict than others. They generally aren't allowed to have electricity in "the house" but batteries and other workarounds exis…

There are large populations of Amish who don't use cell phones, landline phones, or anything. The closest they'd get to a phone call is asking a neighbour to call 911 in an emergency (assuming they're even willing to do that).

One group I am aware of will only use a payphone in the nearest town. They actually filed to force AT&T to keep a payphone there because the relevant tariff required AT&T to do so, and were the only people who ever bothered to make AT&T do this. So there is one payphone in that town that they go to and drop their quarters in to make phone calls.

There are no "secret" cell phones there.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#165

Post by EvanAnderson »

LadyCailin wrote: post #113
tomwheeler wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this guy has the money for a season pass (!) he has the money for a smartphone. Maybe it's not about the money. Maybe he does not want the negative consequences that come along with having a smartphone. Maybe he has dexterity issues that make using a smartphone difficult. Maybe he doesn't want to install their invasive app. Maybe he finds that paper tickets are easier to manage. Maybe he recognizes that the vend…

I’m not sure how exactly this should be worded in law, but I really wish they would pass a law requiring supporting people without smartphone apps. Obviously there would be some exceptions where justified, even for things other than “the app is the whole point” and those need to be thought through, but in this case and plenty of others, there’s just no reason they can’t accommodate non app users. “It costs more to su…

> “It costs more to support non app users” is not a sufficient justification.

For sure. If that was true the answer would be "charge the non-app users a nominal fee to cover the cost".

Invasive tracking is the point, not the cost. It's anti-consumer.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#166

Post by trollbridge »

raverbashing wrote: post #56
drob518 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, everyone needs to have $500 to be able to purchase a smartphone, otherwise they can’t participate in society?

lol not everyone wants/needs an iPhone And yes. People need to get on with the times. In the same way people "need" a power connection in their house. And water plumbing. And used to need a phone line to "participate in society"

So what's next?

Do they also need to have an age-verified Facebook account?

Plus an attested age-verified operating system on that phone?

Are they allowed to use GrapheneOS or do they need to use only the vendor's stock ROM image?

Is it OK if they turn off surveillance on the device or is that required too to "participate in society"?

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#167

Post by loire280 »

MandieD wrote: post #93

My 75-year-old, retired construction worker dad’s fingers are nearly useless on capacitive screens; half a century of handling cement apparently has that effect. His deep East Texas accent was still only semi comprehensible to Siri the last time I had him try with my phone. He recently missed several notifications from his truck’s dealership that the part they ordered was in and ready for installation, because they s…

This happens to everyone's fingers to some extent because the fingertips dry out as you age. It's a huge source of frustration for elderly folks since it adds to the confusion around using touch interfaces. My family members have had some success moistening their fingers with a wet paper towel periodically as they use their devices, though of course that is impractical on the go.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#169

Post by mwigdahl »

this_user wrote: post #158
SoftTalker wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an older guy at my office who often says "if you don't want to do something, don't learn how" and I think this attitude is common. It's not that they can't learn this smartphone stuff, they just don't want to use it.

That's their choice, but they also choose to suffer the consequences. Expecting the world to cater to your needs specifically is such a typical boomer attitude and should no longer be tolerated.

While we're at it, let's get rid of the ADA. Those disabled people expecting the world to cater to their needs specifically are so abusive to those of us with perfectly functional bodies and flexible minds.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#170

Post by SoftTalker »

this_user wrote: post #158
SoftTalker wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an older guy at my office who often says "if you don't want to do something, don't learn how" and I think this attitude is common. It's not that they can't learn this smartphone stuff, they just don't want to use it.

That's their choice, but they also choose to suffer the consequences. Expecting the world to cater to your needs specifically is such a typical boomer attitude and should no longer be tolerated.

And, expecting people who are happy with what they already have and have already paid for to switch to your newer, more complicated, more expensive system so that your numbers go up is another attitude that should not be tolerated.
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