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German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

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Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#161

Post by missedthecue »

mothballed wrote: post #147
unsupp0rted wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a non-sequitur to the question. And the answer is that women are equal to men in all things, except when things get serious, and then all of a sudden biology matters again

Well women are the rate limiting factor in having more men produced for war fodder. It probably makes more sense to ban birth control at the same time men are required to die for the war machine as both would then be playing out their slavery-induced biological role in ensuring survival of the nation. That is if you're down with the whole slavery for war thing.

Biologically true, but probably not in practice. Do we think Ukraine will compell women to repopulate postwar? It won't happen.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#162

Post by dmurray »

petcat wrote: post #93
eigenspace wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a re-instatement of a cold war era law that was suspended in 2011.

Seems like a distinction without a difference to me.

It's an important distinction because it prevents the defence of "oh it's just an old law, there are lots of old laws on the books that everyone knows aren't relevant, they can't be tidied up for political reasons".

It was suspended for the last 15 years! Surely it was easier to leave it suspended and unsuspending it is a conscious choice.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#164

Post by analog31 »

fabian2k wrote: post #127
diath wrote: post #100

Why does it exclude women? War is not just physical strength, but also logistics, operating vehicles, operating drones, nursing, and so on. All tasks that women are well capable of.

Because it would take a change to the constitution to do that while reinstating the old draft laws only takes a regular majority in parliament. The draft is a severe limitation of personal freedom, so you can't just do that by law. The draft for men is already enabled in the constitution, the draft for woman isn't. At this moment, changing the constitution is not possible, there is no majority for this. So that prett…

Can it be challenged under the European constitution?

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#165

Post by renewiltord »

> When asked, the ministry spokesperson pointed out that "the regulation was already in place during the Cold War and had no practical relevance; in particular, there are no penalties for violating it.”

The famed German rule-following in action. This kind of routine violation of regulation is what led to Dieselgate. Social norms in places like this rarely support rule of law. There's a reason the EPA was the one which blew this wide open. Local regulators follow these norms because that's what German cultural norms are.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#166

Post by rvnx »

eigenspace wrote: post #89
jasonvorhe wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The new military service law requires all men under 45 to seek approval from the Bundeswehr to leave the country for longer than three months. It also obliges the military career center to issue it. New. Not cold war. This didn't exist before.

It's a re-instatement of a cold war era law that was suspended in 2011.

The main point was that they changed it so instead of being activated during crisis now it applies anytime, including in peacetime. Making it similar to the cold war provisions doesn't make it sounds better.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#167

Post by im3w1l »

coldtea wrote: post #82
victorbjorklund wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it literally says the law says you must seek permission if you wanna leave for more than 3 months and the govt must always grant you this if not in a war. And if you fail to seek permission nothing happens. You can ignore it without consequence.

> And if you fail to seek permission nothing happens. You can ignore it without consequence The consequence is you violated the law, and they can have you at any time, even retroactively, for that. That they don't is merely a detail. If it really has "no consequence" they should remove it.

I think it's like they want to have it on the books now so they can use it later. If they try to emergency legislate during wartime people will protest and/or flee the country the day before it starts applying.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#168

Post by missedthecue »

mikkupikku wrote: post #159
orange_joe wrote: post #118

How does feminism survive if this becomes the norm? If young men feel like they're expected to give more to their society it's natural to expect renumeration financial, socially or politically. Nordic countries don't seem to have this problem, but their conscription laws are quite relaxed compared to what the future will likely hold. A declining youth population almost certainly means greater youth repression (higher…

How can a state survive if this weren't the norm? Why would men fight and die for a government that views their own wives and daughters as cannon fodder? If the government is conscripting men's wives to war, is it really in the interest of men to risk their own lives to protect that government? If the government took my wife and sent her to war, I'd sooner firebomb a government office than join up to fight for the go…

Most young men don't have wives or daughters. It's not 1850 anymore.

I would rather both genders get drafted than be in a Ukraine situation where millions of women leave for richer countries while I am pulled off the street to go eat FPV drones. What's even the point? Why not surrender? What am I protecting or preserving?

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#169

Post by believme1123e4 »

cubefox wrote: post #122
diath wrote: post #100

Why does it exclude women? War is not just physical strength, but also logistics, operating vehicles, operating drones, nursing, and so on. All tasks that women are well capable of.

[flagged]

passwordless sudo kind of stuff.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#170

Post by stickfigure »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #115
itsyonas wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don't think the problem with war is that not enough women die in it. It makes more sense to argue against forcing anyone against their will to fight in a war.

That's a non-sequitur to the question. And the answer is that women are equal to men in all things, except when things get serious, and then all of a sudden biology matters again

> women are equal to men in all things, except in extreme circumstances when violence is required on a mass scale

Fixed that for you.

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