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Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

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Re: Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

#161

Post by 9dev »

72deluxe wrote: post #152
9dev wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Of all the wonky shit about my Mac, the flawless keyboard navigation is really none of that

I had been using Windows my entire life and using a Mac in 2009? was awful. How do I get to the menu bar? Ctrl-F2. They keep changing the behaviour of the menu so that cursor keys don't wrap at the bottom of a menu so you have to know which direction you want to go to get to a menu item - make your choice! Up or down! How do I get to the dock so that I can open the Applications menu? Ctrl-F3. left left left left left…

I mean, all of this is available in MacOS as well, and configurable even—your main complaint seems to be that it works differently from Windows?

MacOS is a different operating system with different paradigms; instead of a start menu, you'd use Spotlight search for the same effect, which can be invoked with CMD+Space.

Re: Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

#162

Post by mcv »

wildrhythms wrote: post #92

"We've done tons of user testing on this, and it turns out it doesn't work. Touch surfaces don't want to be vertical. It gives great demo but after a short period of time, you start to fatigue and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off. it doesn't work, it's ergonomically terrible." -Steve Jobs, 2010 https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-...

That's only an argument against using it as the primary interface. There have been many, many times for me where it was so much easier to reach for the screen and touch a button, than to reach for the mouse and maneuver the cursor over the button to click it.

It shouldn't be the only way to interact, but as an option, it's awesome.

Re: Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

#163

Post by mcv »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #126
roboy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had several PCs with touch screen and this absolutely true. Even intermittent use is not something I did, it’s just too inconvenient to ever become a habit, so the few times it’d be great, I don’t think about it being there because it’s not in my active list of affordances.

The problem with touchscreen laptops is you have to reach over the keyboard and trackpad to actually touch the screen to make it work, and that's physically uncomfortable and kind of inconvenient. The answer is to make them fold flat so you're just looking at the screen with the keyboard facing away from you (and, ideally, disabled by a switch in the hinge so when you put it down you don't zkjltohtrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…

It's not uncomfortable and inconvenient. There are many times when it's much more convenient to reach for the screen than to reach for the mouse or touchpad and carefully move the cursor. Touching the screen directly is much more natural for the occasional interaction. For prolonged use, nothing beats the mouse (and yet laptops still come with a touchpad and sometimes a clitmouse).

Re: Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

#164

Post by pjc50 »

wongarsu wrote: post #160
pjc50 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original "gorilla arm" UX research is much older. However, Microsoft surface was something of a niche hit, and spawned a number of clones. PC laptops with touchscreens are quite prevalent even if they're not in the full-hinge form factor. They work a lot better if you can lay the screen flat or at a low angle in your lap. Re: the stylus sub-thread, I've actually used cheap Android resistive+stylus phones and a Co…

I've used two touchscreen laptops during the Windows 7 era, and I'd largely agree with Jobs. It's great for some niche cases, but sits unused 99% of the time. Of course that was before Windows 8 completely redesigned the UI to better support touch, but that also hasn't lead to an appreciable portion of Windows laptops selling with touchscreens. The Surface devices are a bit of an exception. For the tablets it works g…

> I've used two touchscreen laptops during the Windows 7 era

To be fair, the point at which Microsoft rewrote their UI to be touch-friendly was Windows 8, inspired by Windows Phone (RIP).

Re: Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

#165

Post by Maxion »

overfeed wrote: post #137
zuhsetaqi wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Steve Jobs said that, he was talking about a stylus as a main or even only input device. And he is still right about it. The Apple Pencil for the iPad never was a main input device but an alternative.

That wasn't the only time Jobs trashed a category Apple didn't currently have annon-sale model for, but was actively developing; he also slurred 6-inch Android phones as "Hummers", and mocked the 7-inch Android tablets as "too small" a little while before Apple launched its iPad Mini.

To be fair, 7.9 inches is quite a bit bigger than 7 inches. That's ~30% more screen area.

Re: Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

#166

Post by 72deluxe »

9dev wrote: post #161
72deluxe wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had been using Windows my entire life and using a Mac in 2009? was awful. How do I get to the menu bar? Ctrl-F2. They keep changing the behaviour of the menu so that cursor keys don't wrap at the bottom of a menu so you have to know which direction you want to go to get to a menu item - make your choice! Up or down! How do I get to the dock so that I can open the Applications menu? Ctrl-F3. left left left left left…

I mean, all of this is available in MacOS as well, and configurable even—your main complaint seems to be that it works differently from Windows? MacOS is a different operating system with different paradigms; instead of a start menu, you'd use Spotlight search for the same effect, which can be invoked with CMD+Space.

No, the main complaint is that you can't do half of those things with a keyboard. Eg. how do I maximise a window on macos with my keyboard?

I have been using macos for decades and use it daily at work so I understand it is different. I am just saying that the out-of-the-box functionality for keyboard usability is very poor compared to Windows (and Linux DEs which imitate Windows).

I end up using Rectangle on macos for moving windows and maximising them using keyboard shortcuts because else it's infuriating for window management to have to move from the keyboard to the mouse all the time. The usability under Tahoe for window edges etc. is even worse with a mouse than previous versions and a complete joke, so I am stuck on Sequoia.

Re: Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

#167

Post by egypturnash »

jojobas wrote: post #100
egypturnash wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's honestly kind of amazing how many things seem to never be tested by anyone with long fingernails. My favorite was the time I picked up a video game controller and physically could not use it because the buttons were in a stylish little recess that meant my thumbnail would have to pass through the plastic housing before I could get the button to make contact.

Why would product designers make products worse for most due to self-inflicted conditions of the few?

You do realize that a significant portion of the population is encouraged to grow their nails long, right? Women exist.

Re: Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

#168

Post by eru »

fennecbutt wrote: post #157
overfeed wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't the only time Jobs trashed a category Apple didn't currently have annon-sale model for, but was actively developing; he also slurred 6-inch Android phones as "Hummers", and mocked the 7-inch Android tablets as "too small" a little while before Apple launched its iPad Mini.

Exactly, but watch people leap into to defend how brilliant he supposedly was.

I see no contradiction.

Re: Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

#169

Post by 9dev »

72deluxe wrote: post #166
9dev wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, all of this is available in MacOS as well, and configurable even—your main complaint seems to be that it works differently from Windows? MacOS is a different operating system with different paradigms; instead of a start menu, you'd use Spotlight search for the same effect, which can be invoked with CMD+Space.

No, the main complaint is that you can't do half of those things with a keyboard. Eg. how do I maximise a window on macos with my keyboard? I have been using macos for decades and use it daily at work so I understand it is different. I am just saying that the out-of-the-box functionality for keyboard usability is very poor compared to Windows (and Linux DEs which imitate Windows). I end up using Rectangle on macos fo…

> how do I maximise a window on macos with my keyboard?

System settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts > Window > Fill. Default on my machine is fn+control+f, but you can also reassign that there of course (which AFAIK is something Windows doesn't let you do, by the way.)

> I end up using Rectangle on macos for moving windows and maximising them using keyboard shortcuts

I also used to use Rectangle, but by now the built-in window management shortcuts fulfil the same purpose out of the box (almost, that is; where Rectangle can move Windows onto the next screen, that is arguably where the built-in shortcuts fall flat, only being able to arrange on a single screen)

Re: Turning a MacBook into a touchscreen with $1 of hardware (2018)

#170

Post by neal_jones »

VerifiedReports wrote: post #128
divbzero wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Who wants a stylus? You have to get ’em and put ’em away, and you lose ’em. Yuck. Nobody wants a stylus. So let’s not use a stylus. We’re going to use the best pointing device in the world. We’re going to use a pointing device that we’re all born with—born with ten of them. We’re going to use our fingers.” — Steve Jobs, 2007 (8 years before the introduction of the Apple Pencil)

And here we are, and the Pencil STILL doesn't work on the defectively oversized trackpads on Apple laptops. So... we're talking about more than one blunder here.

I love the Mac trackpad but would love it more if the pencil worked with it
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