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Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

geohot.github.io

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Re: Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

#161
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot call it a free market if government lobbying exists and is the primary tool for establishing monopolies. Nor you cannot call it a free market if the government is allowed to favour or penalise one entity or one sector over the other. I know words don't mean anything these days, but there is no angle in which you can call modern economy a free one.

“a real free market economy just hasn’t been tried” where have I heard that before?

As soon as we admit that humans are easily corrupted, the sooner we can stop finger pointing and start developing systems to mitigate the natural tendency toward corruption.

Re: Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

#162
post #160
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot call it a free market if government lobbying exists and is the primary tool for establishing monopolies. Nor you cannot call it a free market if the government is allowed to favour or penalise one entity or one sector over the other. I know words don't mean anything these days, but there is no angle in which you can call modern economy a free one.

That’s just one way of becoming a monopoly. Is it a free market if there’s antimonopoly agency?

Government lobbying is just one way to put a hand on the scale of the market. Legislation, incentives favouring unprofitable endeavours, etc.

Re: Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

#163

Let's not gloss over the electrical supply. These chips won't work for free.

LLM inference uses on the order of 1 Wh per query. That's under 10 meters of driving on an EV or running air conditioning for under 5 seconds. https://hannahritchie.substack.com/p/ai-footprint-august-202...

How many querys are people going to be using though when they don't see the upfront costs? And how many querys would have been just as solved with a simple google search or wikipedia page that will instead/also be put through an llm and use extra power? Like if I search for the chocolate tempering temperature or the atomic number of tantalum, isn't all that energy just wasted on the companion llm results? It seems like it will add up.

Re: Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

#164
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes the real market failure is just that a market exists at all . Like, in some really fucked up neoliberal hellscape it might make sense to charge money for reservations separately, but that introduces all sorts of extra new inefficiencies that weren't there before. Like, now that reservations can be bought and sold, it's now legal, possibly moral, and most notably, profitable to hoard them. And since reservat…

A free market is individuals and companies can willing enter whatever transaction they want. If someone is willing to pay for a reservation and a restaurant willing to take payment, then it’s a free market. It’s not inefficient at all. You may not like it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not free

The original post was talking about the scenario of third-party reservations trading marketplaces. In that scenario, reservations become financialized derivatives of the underlying supply of food at a restaurant. But this is being done in a really dumb way where fake demand is being injected to make the reservation independently valuable from the underlying.

To be perfectly clear, bots don't eat food, and we don't need a market to tell us otherwise. Even an individual having Google Duplex reserve ten tables in advance isn't going to be able to eat ten dinners. But if reservations actually cost money, then any restaurant doing the smart thing of just skipping no-shows to keep the kitchen running is now defrauding reservation holders. Capacity has to be reserved and left fallow for the sake of optionality.

Bringing this back to market terms: if reservations are so in demand that restaurants have to charge for them, why don't they just raise the prices on the actual food instead?

Re: Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

#165

I think self driving cars are important for a couple of reasons: 1. Demographics - Aging population needs transportation. God knows we certainly don't need really old people driving themselves. We got a taste of the future in West Portal in that regard not long ago. 2. Human Capital - The US has pretty much demonstrated that there is little desire to import low skilled labor. Where do these theoretical Taxi drivers c…

Public transportation solved this before cars were commonplace. Implement ubiquitous and free public transportation in every urban center (where 80% of the American population lives [0]) and you'll save billions from not having to manufacture (and store!) cars. 0: https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/guidance/g...

Don't disagree that public transportation is necessary however one size does not fit all people. There are elderly people that have difficulty navigating public spaces for many reasons. Having a car drive up to your home or pick you up at the doctor is a game changer. A Waymo making tens or hundreds of trips per day has a utilization rate far exceeding the average car.

Having both is a good thing.

Re: Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People often confuse “free” with “unregulated”, too.

No they don't. That is the very definition.

Sure they do. People often confuse the definition of a platonic ideal with the realities of implementation, and few are versed enough to both comprehend the literal dictionary definitions of “free” having a fork that one can choose to take to “unregulated” and to recognize that the phrase “free market” is imprecise. One either means “a market free of regulations”, or “a market free of adversarial interference by buyers or sellers”, or “a market free of reputational restrictions”, etc. That you’re correct in identifying a dictionary binding from the definition to the interpretation you give precedence when the imprecise form “free market” is used, does not negate the correctness of others preferring their own interpretations for equally valid reasons. Thus my point: confusion occurs, because “free” is inherently a contextual claim whose eventual outcome-branch (in your case, unregulated) is more often than not subject to individual bias and belief rather than singular societal meanings.

Not to mention, that definitions shift over time. Or that claiming the definition to mean “unregulated” to the exclusion of all other meanings is a form of propaganda-slash-evangelism (and so, duly noted in cad you were unaware, as it can be received quite poorly). Or that “fair” is similarly misinterpretable for the same reasons: I prefer fair markets because I can eat cotton candy and listen to people screaming on the rides as I consider each booth’s offerings - and my interpretation of that statement is, in at least two communities I used to work in, the most contextually appropriate take on it! (AI, of course, can’t keep up with that usage, which is honestly a plus in favor of it, but for the ESL folks trying to figure out what I mean, fair → faire / carnival / festival.)

Re: Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

#167
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A free market is individuals and companies can willing enter whatever transaction they want. If someone is willing to pay for a reservation and a restaurant willing to take payment, then it’s a free market. It’s not inefficient at all. You may not like it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not free

Just because a particular market is free doesn't mean it's useful to society at large. If it's not useful to society, society has no moral reason to tolerate it. If it indeed benefits a few individuals massively while on net reducing utility to society, an argument can be made that society has a moral imperative to ban it. Hence the limitations on gambling, on alcohol and tobacco marketing/sales, etc.

> Just because a particular market is free doesn't mean it's useful to society

Of course not.

> If it's not useful to society, society has no moral reason to tolerate it

Then it’s not a free market.

Re: Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

#168
post #42

I find it amusing and, IDK, charming how “rent-seeking” has become a general purpose pejorative, like “bourgeoisie” was at one time.

More like "rent-seeking" has become a general purpose business strategy Instead of selling products companies want recurring revenue from subscription. That's rent seeking. And look how commonplace it is now

Rent has always been a business strategy. The word (and its roots) are thousands of years old.

Rent is just arbitraging capital to offer fractional ownership of goods/services that are too expensive for some purchasers. I rent living space because I move often enough that buying makes no sense. I do not begrudge the owners of the properties their profit, because I don't want to have to buy/sell property every time I move.

The move to subscriptions is because technology has enabled making them easy. I'm old enough to remember when I had to choose between pirating Photoshop or spending many hundreds of dollars I didn't have (at the time, the argument was that it was overpriced so piracy was morally justified).

People whinge about subscriptions but they are an economic good. When you buy software once, the company is incentivized to focus on selling new users and totally neglecting existing users because they've already made every dollar they ever will from those users. Subscriptions align incentives.

People don't like it because there is less consumer surplus; if a product is worth $20/mo I'll pay $20/mo, $240/year, $2400/10 years. If it's not worth it, I won't pay it. But as long as I am paying I have both a right and leverage to ask for improvements.

I know it's against the HN dogma, but this is actually a really good thing for tech.

Re: Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“a real free market economy just hasn’t been tried” where have I heard that before?

As soon as we admit that humans are easily corrupted, the sooner we can stop finger pointing and start developing systems to mitigate the natural tendency toward corruption.

Isn’t that free market capitalism? We assume everyone will act in their own best interest and that this results in the most efficient allocation of resources.

Re: Last gasps of the rent seeking class?

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they don't. That is the very definition.

Sure they do. People often confuse the definition of a platonic ideal with the realities of implementation, and few are versed enough to both comprehend the literal dictionary definitions of “free” having a fork that one can choose to take to “unregulated” and to recognize that the phrase “free market” is imprecise. One either means “a market free of regulations ”, or “a market free of adversarial interference by buy…

I'm not recommending we build a frictionless plane, I'm just saying it doesn't have friction.
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