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Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

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Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#161

Post by iamnothere »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #159
iamnothere wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe this is the case, every now and then we see prosecutors using an obsolete unenforced law or an unexpected edge case of some law to come after people. A great example is the CFAA. It has been judicially narrowed after court battles, because in its original form it was overbroad and criminalized basic, common things. Prosecutors abused it in order to get political wins until they were finally stopped. T…

I'm talking about the specific law that was being discussed, and the particular other law I used as an example. And the protection mentioned was the one of double jeopardy which had also been explicitly mentioned.

Double jeopardy was partially eliminated in the UK in 2003 for qualifying offenses. I don’t think this has been tested, but during a retrial, a refusal to provide a password would be a separate RIPA offense from any refusal during the first trial. So you could actually be jailed more than once for this. For qualifying offenses all that is required for a retrial is “new and compelling evidence” which is a low hurdle for politically unpopular defendants.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#162

Post by quentindanjou »

throwaway290 wrote: post #42
quentindanjou wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them. This is not totally true. It is also a US issue: CBP has been asking for passwords (or to unlock the device) for phones and computers for more than a year now. Last year, multiple people got turned around because they disagreed with US policies and political views that differ from those of the US's current preside…

> Last year, multiple people got turned around because they disagreed with US policies and political views so they were not in US technically?

Exactly, everything is in "technically" because, for example, to the best of my knowledge, JFK airport is located in the US.

There are plenty of articles that actually explain that the practice is illegal, but the gov doesn't really care about its legality + there is no organization able to fight it, and even if there were, the Supreme Court would likely be in favor of the US gov.

What is private life if it can be broken for no reason? What is freedom of speech if it doesn't apply to the people who don't agree with you?

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#163

Post by RandomGerm4n »

That is exactly why a Duress Pin, like the one in GrapheneOS, should be standard everywhere. Ideally, it should also include an option to visibly destroy the device by overheating it, to ensure that no one can accuse you of not having actually deleted the data and keep asking for a password.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#164

Post by AlecSchueler »

iamnothere wrote: post #161
AlecSchueler wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about the specific law that was being discussed, and the particular other law I used as an example. And the protection mentioned was the one of double jeopardy which had also been explicitly mentioned.

Double jeopardy was partially eliminated in the UK in 2003 for qualifying offenses. I don’t think this has been tested, but during a retrial, a refusal to provide a password would be a separate RIPA offense from any refusal during the first trial. So you could actually be jailed more than once for this. For qualifying offenses all that is required for a retrial is “new and compelling evidence” which is a low hurdle f…

If that did happen you'd have a good case from the Human Rights Act because it becomes indefinite imprisonment. The UK is still following the ECHR as well.

But arguing these theoretical untested-because-they-never-happen edge cases isn't exactly pushing forward a good case for this law having been "badly written." There's seemingly no problem with it in practice.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#165

Post by cortic »

gruez wrote: post #130
cortic wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its five years with no limitations, so when you are due to be released; Whats your password? Another five years... Its such a poorly worded law you could literally spend your life in prison for forgetting your password. And Its mostly used against peaceful protesters.

>Its five years with no limitations, so when you are due to be released Doesn't double jeopardy prevent this? Has this actually happened?

Double jeopardy was abolished by Blair in the Criminal Justice Act 2003, Scotland abolished it as well a bit later in Double Jeopardy Act 2011. However i doubt it would apply even if we had it as the wording in Section 49 is so poor it could just be reissued as a new offense each time.

Has it happened? Section 49 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 has a secrecy requirement built into it, where if you tell anyone that you have been issued a Section 49 you can get an additional 5 years (treated as a separate crime). This, as you can imagine, makes your question difficult to answer.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#166

Post by Gud »

watwut wrote: post #99
deejaaymac wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 years in prison can destroy your life easily, so yeah, what's the difference?

Easily something like 45 years of difference. It is really not necessary to lie, no matter how much you hate UK or Europe.

It wasn't a lie. the 5 years can be extended. See the comment by cortic elsewhere in the thread.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#168

Post by whatsupdog »

ponector wrote: post #167
halJordan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's a common knowledge that people who post such comments are on putin's payrol.

Where do I collect me check? I have been doing this for free for a long time!

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#169

Post by amenhotep »

whatsupdog wrote: post #97
tyho wrote: post #3

Wow, what a free society! In the UK if you refuse to unlock your device you can be imprisoned indefinitely! In HK it's just one year!

In UK you can be imprisoned for liking a post on Facebook that is considered "hate speech".

Jail? Just for saying you're English?

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#170

Post by Markoff »

kubb wrote: post #107
Markoff wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cares about your phone in China, if you are tourist, you are less likely have your phone searched than when visiting US. Nobody is going to ask you for your social media profiles when visiting China, unlike when visiting US. So who is here the free country? I've spent this summer 3 weeks in China, used 2 VPNs, both of them worked fine (1 cost less than dollar, the other 4-5 dollars), so did my wife, mother and…

> if you are tourist It's not the tourists, it's the local dissidents that have something to fear. Or maybe try going there as a tourist, and putting up anti-party posters.

parent said clearly he is not visiting there because if these reasons, he is clearly not a local
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