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Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

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Re: Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

#161

Post by mindslight »

owisd wrote: post #127
yalogin wrote: post #102

The big issue isn’t even age verification. The end goal is verified user identification. They want every transaction on the internet to be associated with the exact identity of the user. No more anonymity. In the short term the way it will be implemented is this — age verification will not be a binary, it will also want to push your DoB, name, location etc and they say “the choice is with the user” but the default wi…

If the end goal was user identification then the digital ID + zero knowledge proof age verification methods would be disallowed, which they aren't. https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/platforms/google-...

You got suckered by the marketing. Google's "zero knowledge" approach requires devices locked down with remote attestation, which prohibits end users from running their own code (when interacting with websites that prevent it, which as time goes on under this plan will be everywhere). The only actual difference here is that this is Google's desired approach to destroying anonymity and personal computing.

Re: Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

#162

Post by pembrook »

a-dub wrote: post #95

how about if i do nothing the internet assumes i'm a child and therefore does not track me, show me ads or permit doom scroll feeds. then if i want i can jump through some hoops and pay some money or something to get a digital id that lets me attach a zkp to all my http requests that then unlock the magic of ads, tracking and doom scroll feeds. seems like a good plan to me.

That would be a solution if the people pushing this actually cared about "protecting kids."

But let's be honest, governments want a dragnet they can use to monitor/control all internet communication. The people running western democracies are equally as power hungry and zealously authoritarian (my ideas will bring utopia!) as the people running the CCP.

The only difference is, the CCP has permissionless authority, so they ended internet freedom in China decades ago. They didn't have to ask.

Western authoritarians on the other hand, have to fight a slow battle to cleverly grind you down over time, so that you get tricked into allowing them to gatekeep the internet. It hasn't worked so far. The next step (this one) is "okay, so you don't want to have to ask us permission before you visit a website...but won't anybody think of the poor beautiful innocent children???"

Emotions activated. Rational thought deactivated.

They'll get what they want because they always get what they want. And you'll be convinced it's good for you over time, because most people just follow whatever the mainstream "vibes" are, and the elite sets the vibes. It's amazing a free internet existed this long. Great while it lasted.

Re: Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

#163

Post by echelon »

scotty79 wrote: post #152
echelon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are just some of the things you can do with tracking: - Dox, coerce, blackmail, and ruin political candidates, powerful CEOs, and wealthy people. If they watch a category of porn that is embarrassing or have an affair, suddenly you have leverage against them. You can parlay that to accomplish lots of things. - Make it impossible to talk about certain things and eventually eliminate those things. Porn today, abor…

> ruin political candidates, powerful CEOs, and wealthy people This is mostly fantasy propagated by works of fiction. In the real world release of any evidence of sins has practically zero impact on the wealthy people and when it very occasionally does have an impact it just happens in cases of people who weren't wealthy enough for the circumstances.

The Epstein Island isn't just a fantasy playground for sickos.

Every single one of those people has a noose around their neck and is being told what to do. They have a gun to their head now.

The intelligence apparatus has been exploiting dynamics like this for a long time.

Re: Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

#164

Post by gruez »

scotty79 wrote: post #154
gruez wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't change the conclusion, unless you're trying to imply the entire party is full of pedophiles.

At this point the burden of proof is on the party. Benefit of the doubt has ran out.

>Benefit of the doubt has ran out

...because they're pushing age verification legislation? Did I miss some massive Labor pedophile scandal? If not, this just feels like a tautology. Labor is only pushing age verification because they're pedophiles, and they're pedophiles because they're pushing age verification.

Moreover even if we ignore that, what does that mean for the rest of their platform items? If Labor is pro net-zero, is it fair to characterize the situation as "the people pushing for net-zero are pedophiles"?

Re: Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

#165

Post by zingerlio »

mattmanser wrote: post #35
bilekas wrote: post #9

It's too late and never about children, simply deeper forms of data harvesting and surveillance. What makes me extremely sad and concerned is that more recent generations simply have no idea or expectation of privacy online anymore. There will never be more of a fight against all this Orwellian behavior.

Go watch the newest Louis Theroux, into the manosphere. At points Louis and whatever absolute scumbag he's with walk around the streets while the guy is filming his own content. There are kids, literally 11/12 year olds, walking up to these predatory, evil, scammers on the street going "oh my god it's MC" or whatever their name is. Multiple times. And he hardly gets to spend any time with these men because they clock…

I share your observations and concerns. But I don't think the current erosion of digital privacy and the censorship creep were made to address those. There are better ways (even though they are not fully fleshed out yet) to minimize toxic/populist influence, but a blank cheque to sacrifice our rights isn't one.

Re: Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

#166

Post by echelon »

rdevilla wrote: post #158
echelon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are just some of the things you can do with tracking: - Dox, coerce, blackmail, and ruin political candidates, powerful CEOs, and wealthy people. If they watch a category of porn that is embarrassing or have an affair, suddenly you have leverage against them. You can parlay that to accomplish lots of things. - Make it impossible to talk about certain things and eventually eliminate those things. Porn today, abor…

Good luck, man. Nobody cared in 2012, and even less people care now. The west is lost. 1984 is already here.

Don't give up!

If you think the heat has started, you're mistaken. We're not even in the fire yet. It can and will get waaaay worse.

We've been able to push back against these efforts time and time again. Don't stop. Call your legislators. Talk with your friends and get them to do the same. Vote against politicians that support it.

It does work.

Re: Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

#167

Post by scotty79 »

simonask wrote: post #136
yalogin wrote: post #102

The big issue isn’t even age verification. The end goal is verified user identification. They want every transaction on the internet to be associated with the exact identity of the user. No more anonymity. In the short term the way it will be implemented is this — age verification will not be a binary, it will also want to push your DoB, name, location etc and they say “the choice is with the user” but the default wi…

I truly share your concerns, especially as someone belonging to a minority. At the same time, we have to be real: Online anonymity has significant, real-world drawbacks. I don't think it's reasonable to keep dreaming of the 90s or 00s when the internet was a comparatively innocent place. As society is more and more digitized, the stakes become much, much higher. An information leak 30 years ago was bad, but it had a…

> Online anonymity has significant, real-world drawbacks.

Online anonymity has significant, real-world benefits which every doxxed person ever will list for you.

Re: Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

#168

Post by mindslight »

simonask wrote: post #136
yalogin wrote: post #102

The big issue isn’t even age verification. The end goal is verified user identification. They want every transaction on the internet to be associated with the exact identity of the user. No more anonymity. In the short term the way it will be implemented is this — age verification will not be a binary, it will also want to push your DoB, name, location etc and they say “the choice is with the user” but the default wi…

I truly share your concerns, especially as someone belonging to a minority. At the same time, we have to be real: Online anonymity has significant, real-world drawbacks. I don't think it's reasonable to keep dreaming of the 90s or 00s when the internet was a comparatively innocent place. As society is more and more digitized, the stakes become much, much higher. An information leak 30 years ago was bad, but it had a…

> Sticking our head in the sand crying "git gud" while millions get scammed out of their life savings...

The solution is called a durable power of attorney and then moving significant assets to different financial institutions with e-statements. Or the heavyweight option is a living trust.

Mandatory identity verification or locking down software really have no bearing on this problem. Scammers leverage generic apps in the app stores just fine.

This problem most certainly is a part of the global turn towards fascism, which is ultimately based on frustrated people demanding easy answers and then empowering those who are able to give them easy answers by lying to them.

Re: Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

#169

Post by maweaver »

gruez wrote: post #49
jjk166 wrote: post #24

The people pushing for "child protection" went to the island. It's not even about control, it's about shifting liability away from platforms so they can further gut moderation, reducing their expenses and getting away with doing nothing to stop the actual bad actors.

>The people pushing for "child protection" went to the island. What does this even mean aside from a thinly veiled accusation that such efforts are being pushed by a shadowy cabal of pedophiles elites? I'm sure you can find some overlap between people who want to push age verification laws and people who went to the island, but what about everyone else pushing for the law but who didn't go?

It means that especially those who went to the island but also most of the others don't care about protecting children. They merely see a way to consolidate power and are jumping on it.

Re: Do Not Turn Child Protection into Internet Access Control

#170

Post by rdevilla »

echelon wrote: post #166
rdevilla wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck, man. Nobody cared in 2012, and even less people care now. The west is lost. 1984 is already here.

Don't give up! If you think the heat has started, you're mistaken. We're not even in the fire yet. It can and will get waaaay worse. We've been able to push back against these efforts time and time again. Don't stop. Call your legislators. Talk with your friends and get them to do the same. Vote against politicians that support it. It does work.

Whatever you think the scale of surveillance is, I assure you it is 100x worse.

North America is rooted. There is no recovery plan.

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