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Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#161

Post by ninalanyon »

woleium wrote: post #110
adaptbrian wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly anecdotal, but feels like you can positively effect your gut microbiome for example by riding a horse. Ive read research about how other mammals can share their microbiomes with humans, if its not the horses biome then what is it that so satisfingly calming post ride. Would love to be enlightened. Ride a horse if you need to destress, amazing creatures.

i guess in that case, washing woth soap everyday is probably a negative factor?

Washing with soap everyday unless you are very dirty is indeed negative and can dry your skin. Especially as most of what is called soap now is not soap but a very complex collection of synthetic organic chemicals.

Exactly how negative it is though is difficult to determine and probably varies from person to person.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#162

Post by fwip »

Aurornis wrote: post #62
zinkem wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this research is totally true-- I had a lot of memories come back after 1. I stopped drinking heavily and using other drugs, i.e. marijuana 2. managed my diet to avoid heartburn without medication 3. schedule my meals so it was easier to sleep at night (always eat something for breakfast when I wake up) I did not need any "poo infusion" or anything. I had a gal bladder removal that didn't fix the problems t…

> 1. I stopped drinking heavily and using other drugs, i.e. marijuana Heavy alcohol use and marijuana are both known to impact memory and recall directly. Discontinuing both of those explains changes in memory. Attributing this to microbiome changes does not follow.

Also, getting better sleep (by fixing heartburn and meals) will mean you're more rested, and improve functioning during the day.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#163

Post by alpineman »

hbcondo714 wrote: post #10
inanutshellus wrote: post #9

Everyone's "poo-pooing" the article because the title doesn't mention mice, but, FWIW, stories of gut biota affecting humans behavior have been documented for a while. Memory gain is noteworthy, which is the article's "wow" factor, but everyone's just knee-jerk smirking so ... here's a few random articles to gross you out about the wild world of trading microbiota and, for better or worse, changing your personality:…

I would recommend the site https://gutbrainaxistherapeutics.com for learning more about Microbiota Transplant Therapy (MTT) and its opportunities, especially for Autism and Pitt-Hopkins Syndrome.

Fecal transplants...people will do anything to avoid eating a balanced, largely/wholly plant-based diet with a wide variety of fruits and vegetables.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#164

Post by grvdrm »

zinkem wrote: post #28
inanutshellus wrote: post #9

Everyone's "poo-pooing" the article because the title doesn't mention mice, but, FWIW, stories of gut biota affecting humans behavior have been documented for a while. Memory gain is noteworthy, which is the article's "wow" factor, but everyone's just knee-jerk smirking so ... here's a few random articles to gross you out about the wild world of trading microbiota and, for better or worse, changing your personality:…

I believe this research is totally true-- I had a lot of memories come back after 1. I stopped drinking heavily and using other drugs, i.e. marijuana 2. managed my diet to avoid heartburn without medication 3. schedule my meals so it was easier to sleep at night (always eat something for breakfast when I wake up) I did not need any "poo infusion" or anything. I had a gal bladder removal that didn't fix the problems t…

Fascinating to hear. I am trying to cut alcohol - still not entirely successful.

But I've been able to cut for months at a time. Whenever the cut happens, I feel my brain sort of "return" roughly a week or two in.

I'm not sure how to explain it other than something like fog clearing. Obviously makes some intuitive sense when you read it.

However, as someone that has consumed alcohol somewhat regularly (sometimes more, sometimes less) since college, it's bizarre to think about that consumption in retrospect. In effect, years and years of "fog" - it makes me wonder how different or similar life would have been without that fog.

Can't change the past now, but a data point and strong signal for the future.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#165

Post by Aurornis »

mustaphah wrote: post #159
Aurornis wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment had nothing to do with mice versus humans. It’s about singular papers with too good to be true results. You can find these in humans too.

I guess "too good to be true" is not a decent argument to convince a rational mind

The salient point of my comment is singular paper

The rational mind should not be seeing singular papers and assuming they’re correct. There are a lot of incentives for researchers to publish amazing results that benefit their career. They find ways to publish these through small sample sizes, p-hacking, or worse like faking results.

The amazing results usually disappear in larger studies by more rigorous researchers. There are so many papers showing amazing things in a handful of mice in a lab or even human volunteers that do not appear again in properly powered studies.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#166

Post by mustaphah »

Aurornis wrote: post #165
mustaphah wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess "too good to be true" is not a decent argument to convince a rational mind

The salient point of my comment is singular paper The rational mind should not be seeing singular papers and assuming they’re correct. There are a lot of incentives for researchers to publish amazing results that benefit their career. They find ways to publish these through small sample sizes, p-hacking, or worse like faking results. The amazing results usually disappear in larger studies by more rigorous researchers…

That's a fair clarification.

I never said we have sufficient evidence to act. But "too good to be true" + "singular paper" together can become an unfalsifiable dismissal - by that logic, every important result looks suspicious before it replicates. The interesting question is what priors should update our confidence here.

Stanford/Arc Institute and published in Nature + mechanistic grounding + prior research on gut-brain axis gives me way more confidence than average, but you're right, that's not nearly enough for most, but quite sufficient for me, and surely others with informed priors or a strong motive.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#167

Post by grvdrm »

seethishat wrote: post #13

IMO people should eat more fiber. A lot more fiber. It cleans the gut, the liver, absorbs cholesterol, slows insulin response and makes you feel full longer. The microbes in our guts need it to function. Rather than jumping from one fad diet to another, just eat what you like and be sure to get a lot of fiber each day.

Roughly what I follow. I pour chia seeds into everything I eat. Also: edamame, goji berries, green peas. Etc etc. My particular motivation is 1) health, but 2) I lift quite a bit and try to get as much protein from food as possible.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#168

Post by coldtea »

Aurornis wrote: post #154
coldtea wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Heavy alcohol use and marijuana are both known to impact memory and recall directly. And who said they don't do this (long term) exactly through their affecting the gut microbiome?

Both alcohol and marijuana have direct actions on the brain. That’s why people consume them. They do not exert their primary effects via microbiome modulation. This is obvious because the effects occur nearly immediately upon consumption, whereas microbiome change from what you consume is a gradual process. The question I have is: Why has microbiome become the explanation for everything? What would lead you to believ…

>Both alcohol and marijuana have direct actions on the brain. That’s why people consume them.

Which is orthogonal as to whether those direct actions also affect long term memory.

>They do not exert their primary effects via microbiome modulation.

Who said anything about primary effects?

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#169

Post by bitexploder »

harrall wrote: post #104
bitexploder wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serotonin from the gut affects vagal neurons. They carry that signal directly to the brain. That has a significant effect on up and down regulation of mood and arousal.

Okay that’s like my company that uses Salesforce that sends an invoice to another company that also uses Salesforce. The fact that we both use Salesforce does not matter. It’s internal and doesn’t mean anything outside the company. Both the brain and gut re-used the molecule for their own internal signaling. Evolutionarily it was cheaper to use an existing molecule. To the brain, the invoice is just “I’m full” or “I’…

It is a powerful neuron hormone. The mechanisms are different. It is still important to recognize the rather dramatic influence this has on the brain. That was what this article was about. This pathway can easily lead to depression and significant broad down regulation in the brain. Serotonin inside of the brain works very specifically. The vagus nerve signal has a very broad impact and should not be hand waved. If your vasovagal system has dysregulation it can lead to all sorts of specific brain internal negative outcomes systemically. I think your model of how this works is not very accurate regarding how broadly connected the vagal signaling pathway is and how that impacts how your brain functions.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#170

Post by biophysboy »

inanutshellus wrote: post #9

Everyone's "poo-pooing" the article because the title doesn't mention mice, but, FWIW, stories of gut biota affecting humans behavior have been documented for a while. Memory gain is noteworthy, which is the article's "wow" factor, but everyone's just knee-jerk smirking so ... here's a few random articles to gross you out about the wild world of trading microbiota and, for better or worse, changing your personality:…

There are a lot of HN users that think they are better at science because they know about p-hacking and the limitations of animal models.
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