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Setting up phones is a nightmare

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Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#161

Post by kirenida »

Regarding users creating new accounts on phone setup:

Recently I encountered a user that had created a new Google account when switching to a new device... on their last 5 devices.

So when they switched to the latest one and called me to set up the phone, I had to wrangle the contacts, photos, cloud storage and whatnot from all of those accounts.

Another pain point for me (in the EU/Balkans) is the transfer of Whatsapp and Viber. For reasons unknown, the accounts, contacts, chats, downloaded data can't be transferred during device setup. The only way to transfer data to a new device is to create a cloud backup on the old phone, which requires creating a wapp/viber account and setting up the google drive backup (local backup to a file? lol no. Any other cloud service available? lol no). Of course, when dealing with a media-heavy user (lots of photos, lots of memes/videos from group chats that are automatically downloaded to the phone), often is the case that the cloud storage tied to the google account doesn't have enough space for the backups, because it is filled with the automatic google photos backup that nobody turns off. And the user usually doesn't want to pay for extra space on Google because they don't understand why or just plainly don't want to.

So yeah, the transfer process is slow and complicated and full of traps, but it also offers an insight in to how much the imaginary "average consumer" doesn't care about this stuff and just agrees to everything offered.

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#162

Post by koyote »

malnourish wrote: post #153
daliusd wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 5 years old iPhone SE2020 that is relatively cheap having in mind that is 5 years old. None of Androids served me that long. Only Motorola tried, but water killed it. Water has not killed iPhone when my son threw it into pond. Which Android is that good, practically speaking?

My wife uses a OnePlus 8t (about as old as your phone) daily. It's survived drops, tubs, etc.

I still have one of those lying around in the draw. It's the backup phone and every time I or my partner needs to use it I am surprised at how well it still works.

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#163

Post by drnick1 »

krick wrote: post #137
drnick1 wrote: post #134

The best phone experience, by far, if you hate bloat and spyware is GrapheneOS on a Pixel. No accounts, no logins, no restrictions on side loading, and most Android apps that aren't affected by the Play Integrity cancer just work. You can even install Google apps if you want, but my preference is to use FOSS apps only.

Surely, it depends on your particular vendors, but don't you have any problems with banking apps and such? I honestly just don't know, didn't try messing with firmware in a while. Do you use Revolut or something similar?

The GrapheneOS community maintains a list of banking apps compatibility. In a nutshell, most banking apps that haven't been infected by Play Integrity work just fine.I have yet to find a US app that does not work, but some European banking apps no longer do. If switching banks isn't an option, my suggestion is to keep an old or cheap "certified" phone for that purpose. Most of us have old hardware lying around so that is a fairly natural solution. Note that flashing the OS on a Pixel is reversible, so one option is to go back to the stock OS after upgrading to a newer model.

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#164

Post by BLKNSLVR »

hocuspocus wrote: post #104
lnrd wrote: post #24

Giving an Android phone to elderly/non-technical people is asking for trouble imho. They will eventually tap their way into installing suspicious apps, adware or even straight up malware. It's inevitable, they are not aware of what they do and how to avoid the many risks of the digital world. I remember having the same struggles of OP when setting up a cheap android phone for my grandma, the amount of bloat, adware a…

My mom has had several generations of Galaxy A5x and basic iPads, it makes absolutely no difference. She simply never installs any app. Some things are actually worse on the iOS side. It took years for Apple to catch up with spam and scam calls/SMS detection. Plain Google search is still the main vector of scams, I eventually set up NextDNS on her devices.

> Plain Google search is still the main vector of scams

How incredibly sad this fact is. And even sadder all the second-level implications about how it got to this point. And then sadder still that there is unlikely anything done about it in the foreseeable future.

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#165

Post by klausa »

microtonal wrote: post #42
wtmt wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key word here is “typically”. Transferring eSIM from one iPhone to another can be restricted by the carrier. Here in India, the second largest carrier (Airtel), does not support the native iOS eSIM transfer process. It’s a separate set of steps (the ones published on Airtel’s website won’t work, despite customer care claiming that it does). What works is almost like applying for a new or replacement eSIM.

Same here, KPN, NL. You have to install the KPN app on the new phone and log in. Then you request an eSIM on the new phone. You get an SMS auth code on the old phone. You fill the auth code on the new phone. Then you have to remove the eSIM from the old phone (with the new one not provisioned yet). Then confirm on the new phone and cross your fingers that provisioning works. Presumably (according to the docs) when it…

I had to _call_ my German provider to get a new eSIM.

Meanwhile, my carrier in Japan not only migrates eSIMs between phones with no issues; it even offered to migrate my wife's physical SIM to an eSIM when setting up a new phone; and it worked flawlessly.

The way my original eSIM here was provisioned was also surprising to me, in a "I didn't even know this is possible" way.

When signing up for a contract, I just put in my eSIM EID, and then a couple of hours later an eSIM was _pushed to my phone by the carrier_; without me having to do anything (other than confirming that I do want to install it). Lots of customer-facing telecom infra here is pretty bad; but the eSIM experience was as good as it gets.

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#166

Post by winterbloom »

bsder wrote: post #125
sonofhans wrote: post #8

“Phones” in the title is doing lots of heavy lifting. “Android phones” is the key missing piece. I love Free software too, and I wish I could run more of my life on it, but it’s no longer my hobby. I like cars, too, but I don’t work on a hobby car. The author’s experience is why I use proprietary stuff like Apple for these parts of my life. A new Apple device is usually a non-event: charge it, authenticate, wait for…

> “Android phones” is the key missing piece. iOS/macOS is no better. My wife kept getting weird errors on her iPhone. Turns out, her photos were only in the cloud and, quelle surprise, she had run out of room in "The Cloud(tm)" in spite of having almost half a terabyte free on her phone. All the companies want to hold your data hostage.

who do you think gets in trouble if her phone dies and all her stuff is gone

storing things in the cloud is responsible

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#167

Post by BLKNSLVR »

MattDamonSpace wrote: post #98
uyzstvqs wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your relatives are significantly tech illiterate, I'd skip the smartphone entirely and go for a locked-down Linux desktop + feature phone. The most dangerous apps are big legitimate ones. If you do go for a smartphone, my experience tells me that there's no difference between Android and iOS. The biggest sources for shady apps are the Google Play Store and Apple App Store. Shady stuff on the web can be easily defe…

Sir a Linux desktop recommendation for non-tech-literate elders is just silly

Sir no sir. I believe entirely the opposite. If they're tech illiterate then they don't have the entrenched knowledge that is the only thing keeping most people within the Windows ecosystem.

A Linux install that meets the basic needs of the user is perfecto!

Less so recently just due to time constraints, but I'm generally the technical person in my family group, and I've lost enough touch with Windows that troubleshooting it is increasingly difficult. If they need me to 'format and reinstall' they're getting Linux unless they have a very specific need that only Windows can cater to.

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#168

Post by gib444 »

iPhones are nice but all that iCloud data is a privacy nightmare especially without Advanced Data Protection, which the UK Gov caused Apple to stop offering in the UK (and I can see that extending to the E U).

Friction can be good in life. Good food takes effort etc. When it comes to phones, there is the issue of privacy, security and phone addiction.

When the mobile is hard to use (eg Grapheneos - no offence), it can force you to use a real computing device for most of your needs

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#169

Post by yonatan8070 »

kirenida wrote: post #161

Regarding users creating new accounts on phone setup: Recently I encountered a user that had created a new Google account when switching to a new device... on their last 5 devices. So when they switched to the latest one and called me to set up the phone, I had to wrangle the contacts, photos, cloud storage and whatnot from all of those accounts. Another pain point for me (in the EU/Balkans) is the transfer of Whatsa…

WhatsApp can do a local backup to /storage/emulated/0/Android/media/com.whatsapp

I have that set up, and Nextcloud syncs the folder to my server

Re: Setting up phones is a nightmare

#170

Post by gib444 »

Gander5739 wrote: post #71
Animats wrote: post #59

I'm dreading having to buy a new rugged Android phone. I have one where all the stuff I don't want is turned off. F-Droid, Firefox, FairEmail, DuckDuckGo, no Google account. Getting a new phone into that configuration may not be possible. The major brands are more and more locked down, and the minor brands can't be trusted. I have a Cat phone now. The actual manufacturer, Bullett, went bankrupt. Can't get the small r…

You could get a pixel and flash grapheneos. Most stock roms will require google services.

Pixels are far from rugged
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