To quote: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
Keep Your Identity Small
161–170 of 267 posts
Re: Keep Your Identity Small
#162A wonderful essay and truly a joy to read. This is very close to some stuff that I read in Gurdjieff's writings some time ago, and it's the first time I see the concept of "identification as a bad thing" outside of those writings. Thanks for this insightful take on a very interesting subject for me.
Doesn't not having an a lot of identities give you an identity of someone who doesn't have a lot of identities? Are you not looking down on those who think they have the Truth by saying I have the Truth and the Truth is that identities don't matter?
I find people in that group the most most smug and intolerant of all. If I think that vi is better than emacs, and you say the opposite we can discuss it. I can agree with you belief that there is a better editor. If I say editors don't matter and they are all the same, I am saying I have a higher truth. This attitude was debunked in PGs essay "Revenge of the Nerds." PG has formally adopted the role of Pointy Haired Boss!
Re: Keep Your Identity Small
#163Not your best effort. You seem to be arguing against having core beliefs. Yet having read your essays I would find it extremely hard to believe that you practice what you preach.
Re: Keep Your Identity Small
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
are people much more religious than when you were a kid? Yes. It was very noticeable when I went back to Pittsburgh recently. When I was a kid, people went to church, but it didn't spill over into everyday life. They did it more as a matter of form. Now people's conversation is filled with religious references. Someone who 30 years ago would have said "we have two children" now says "we've been blessed with two child…
If you believe the small smattering of polls cited in this Wikipedia article people have actually become less religious over the last 10 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#B... They moved from 94% believing in God to 73%. Might just be the small sample or differences in questions asked though.
It seems much more likely to be availability bias on pg's part.
Re: Keep Your Identity Small
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right. That's why I was careful to qualify it with "all other things being equal." In general identity gives you strength while making you stupid. This can sometimes be a good trade, especially in stressful situations. E.g. I think this is one reason people in the US are so much more religious than they were when I was a kid. People who 30 years ago might have been skeptical of preachers are now thinking that…
Great essay and discussion. I think there's another variable strongly influencing how "identity" behaves in the wild. Consider the examples of Nelson Mandela and Ghandi. Both men very strongly identified with the cause of their people, but despite that identity had an amazingly noble approach to their oppressors. Horrible atrocities were committed by their foes, yet they reached out to them with grace - both during t…
Mandela founded the ANC's armed wing (Umkhonto we Sizwe). This armed wing was responsible for its fair share of atrocities such as:
- Planting landmines that killed people indiscriminately in rural areas
- Torture and executions esp. in foreign camps
- Burning people that worked with the apartheid government alive (necklacing). Mandela's wife killed a 14 year old boy without spending a day in jail (Stompie Sipei)
- Church Street bombing and Magoo's bar bombing (which killed civilians). Bombing of an Amamzimtoti shopping center (which killed two children and a woman).
- Factional fighting with the IFP in the late 80ies and early 90ies (which killed more than 15,000 people).
What happened in South Africa was amazing - but it was not just Mandela that made a great leap. White people gave up all power that they had - military, political, just on the basis of a constitution. This knowing full well that there were no other successful democratic African country.
This brings this post to a familiar ground - we do not want to be discussing politics on YCNews. So if you want to use a person as a hero, use Archbishop Desmond Tutu who advocated for non-violence from the start.
Re: Keep Your Identity Small
#166"hacker"
Re: Keep Your Identity Small
#167The dumb behavior is not just from identity, but from identity as part of a social group.
People identify strongly with plenty of things without getting stupid over them. Being a good bargain hunter, or a collector of ceramic frogs, or having skin cancer might be an important part of your identity. But for the most part, these are not identities that provoke people to shout slogans at rallies or spend hours typing insults to other usernames on a discussion board.
But when you are identifying with a group, then "you" becomes "us", and the social interaction becomes "us vs. them". It is human nature to enjoy these kind of conflicts, to demonstrate that you're a loyal member of "us", and that you are ready to do battle with "them".
Unfortunately, when this plays out in a discussion group, it results in rude, repetitive, and boring conversations.
Also, I do not think it is workable to say "don't identify yourself with social groups because it will make you stupid". That is much like saying "don't let yourself feel sexual attraction because it will make you stupid". While true, it's only telling part of the story, and in any case impractical for most people. Better to be aware of your natural inclination for group bonding, and try to manage it and be aware of when it is managing you.
Re: Keep Your Identity Small
#168A similar point of view is expressed by czech novelist Milan Kundera in his "Immortality" (http://www.librarything.com/work/2601/41486088), analysing the way people build their outwards identity by means of adding - or subtracting - attributes such as the ones you point out.
Re: Keep Your Identity Small
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just for some context, are people much more religious than when you were a kid? I had figured this was a relatively stable number. Or maybe you were referring to how fervent people have become with their religious views? I'm curious about the actual trend of religiosity, and I'm somewhat skeptical of anecdotal data (for the very reasons in your article). What is the general trend from someone who's been following thi…
are people much more religious than when you were a kid? Yes. It was very noticeable when I went back to Pittsburgh recently. When I was a kid, people went to church, but it didn't spill over into everyday life. They did it more as a matter of form. Now people's conversation is filled with religious references. Someone who 30 years ago would have said "we have two children" now says "we've been blessed with two child…
Have you read Tom Wolfe's "The 'Me' Decade and the Third Great Awakening"? He seems to think the 70's were particularly religious, although perhaps not in the traditional way. These things definitely seem to go in cycles, though.
Re: Keep Your Identity Small
#170Not your best effort. You seem to be arguing against having core beliefs. Yet having read your essays I would find it extremely hard to believe that you practice what you preach.
I think that he isn't so much arguing against having core beliefs as he is arguing against maintaining a minimum number of social identities. Overall, I think he is taking a rationalist approach.
pg cites being a scientist as a good example of a minimalist objective. He seems to be getting at a social version of occam's razor.