Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're accused of opening short positions, then pumping and dumping to trigger the shorts. That's not arbitrage.
That's not insider trading lol.
It is when you are the market maker as well.
Can you reverse engineer our neural network?
161–170 of 216 posts
Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?
#162I was curious to see if I could crack the MD5 hash so I managed to write the following python code to extract the expected hash from the model:
https://gist.github.com/alexspurling/598366d5a5cf5565043b8cd...
Knowing the input text was two words separated by a space, I was able to use hashcat and the unix wordlist (/usr/share/dict/words) to find the solution almost immediately. It's a shame that Alex didn't find it this way on his first attempt as the two words are fairly common.
Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?
#163I'm really curious what were the magic words. > Alex had actually tried to brute force the hash earlier, but had downloaded a list of the top 10,000 most popular words to do it, which turned out not to be big enough to find it. Once he had a big enough word list, he got the answer. They don't reveal the answer.
If I had to guess, “hot dog” would be the first thing I’d try. “Vegetable dog” was given as 0, and it may be alluding to a Silicon Valley episode.
If you want, you can enter your guess in the huggingface page for the puzzle:
https://huggingface.co/spaces/jane-street/puzzle
It's not "hot dog". I wrote in another comment how I found the solution but to give you a clue it is AI related.
Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
All I think when I see this is "this intelligence wasted on finance and ads." Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? Not everything has to be perfectly efficient but it just saddens me to see all these great minds doing what, adversarially harvesting margin from the works of others?
but doesn't the empirical evidence reject this premise? if the greatest minds of earth, in their wisdom, have all collectively concluded that the smartest thing for them to do is make as much money as humanly possible, then evidently the greatest calling for mankind is... to be wealthy! and the older i get the harder it becomes to argue with such a perspective... hmm... maybe i am getting closer to wisdom? haha!
“The smartest people pursue whatever is incentivized, therefore the current incentive structure is humanity's greatest calling.”
Yeah, no. The smartest people on earth didn’t convene and design this system. What we have now is just a fragile equilibrium we collectively stumbled into. There’s no reason to think it’s final, unless you've come to assume history ends with you...
Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?
#165[stub for offtopicness]
Jane Street skims money from our retirement accounts by building expensive clocks that the rest of us don’t have access to and adversarial queue modeling. We get WWVB and NIST NTP. They say they “add liquidity” as if subsecond trades are some fundamental need in the market. Normal legitimate business settles daily. The contemporary concept of time in banking is inhumane in the strictest sense. These firms are a bligh…
How is trading a stock "skimming money from your retirement account." You choose to put your retirement money in the market, that doesn't imply others shouldn't be able to trade in that market for other reasons. Not sure what you mean by "legitimate business settles daily" -- are you suggesting stocks should trade only once a day? (They already do settle as opposed to trade daily, not instantly, but I know that's not what you meant.) If you want a lower liquidity asset that's not volume traded for whatever reason, you're welcome to buy bonds, preferred, etc.
Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
By "pumping and dumping" do you mean "buying and selling" to outsmart other people trying to outsmart them? Did they lie about the financial health of the securities they traded?
You could just read the article. This is outside my domain, and I don’t know the details, but in many cases Jane street functions as a market maker, market makers have access to information they can exploit to skim from anyone that trades through them, especially retail investors who place market orders. Pump and dump is a strategy that whales can use to bully smaller traders, not unlike how in poker the smaller your…
> Please correct me if I’m wrong.
You are, about pretty much all of this.
Being a market maker doesn't provide any special information. I'm guessing someone misunderstood something like Level II quotes (https://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/06/level2quote...) as being information that hedge funds / investment banks / pros have that retail traders don't... but it's just semi-public information that anyone can pay for access to.
Jane Street also isn't doing pump and dumps, they're not in crypto discord channels hyping some coin or running bot farms of twitter accounts to talk up some stock.
They run several different types of trading that might interact with other people attempting pump & dumps though, which could impact in either direction- plausibly they might do a momentum trade that follows the direction of movement or they might recognize a price discrepancy happening and trade against it.
More accurately, they have complex models pulling in many, many signals to inform trading, and I'm being a bit reductionist to categorize it as these two things.
Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?
#167[stub for offtopicness]
[flagged]
> Next time someone says “what a waste of a brain”, respond with “how much money are you willing to contribute monthly to distribute to “top talent” so that they can “work on more important things”?
Answer seems to be "approximately zero". One of those people has already suggested in another comment thread that the way to incentivize brilliant minds to work on “greater good” projects is to... raise their taxes so they wouldn't be able to properly monetize their skills anywhere. How dare they want financial security instead of toiling for big pharma for cheap?!
Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
>free universal healthcare, free public transport There's no such thing as free things, there's just some people paying for other people's things, and surprise surprise some people don't want to use their hard earned money to pay for other people's transport and healthcare.
And yet too much zero sum thinking leads to a crabs in a bucket mentality were the greedy get less by being greedy instead of having an educated productive society around them.
A large portion (I think it's the majority, but would be happy to be wrong) of our fellow man is a net loss to society, with some smaller percentage being a significant drain.
Giving more and more resources to those people does not make them magically more educated, productive, or congenial.
So it's not a "crabs in a bucket" mentality in that the greedy (which I assume means the wealthy here, as they're the ones funding the public system in the US specifically and the western world for the most part) are trying to keep the lower classes beneath them, it's that they are not interested in wasting their resources to no meaningful end other than increased consumption of low quality or worse goods and services.
Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?
#169Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
High frequency quants almost certainly don't directly provide a massive social good, but they're one of the many facilitators enabling the smooth functioning of markets that do. But FWIW, the comment I was replying didn't seem to be specifically critical of high frequency quants. Dismissing the entire field as something that doesn't contribute to society is beyond absurd.
If markets were regulated to trade in coordinated 1s auctions, instead of nanosecond precision first-come-first-served matching of orders, markets would function just as well without needing a ton of what the HFT crowd does. It's a massive waste of brilliant minds.
Where does the liquidity come from? You'd get rid of HFTs but you would still need market makers