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We installed a single turnstile to feel secure

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Re: We installed a single turnstile to feel secure

#161

Post by linkregister »

halapro wrote: post #157
some_random wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not actually the extreme punishments, it's the consistent small punishments. It's that you'll actually, seriously get a ticket for littering, even if it's a relatively small ticket. The "Fine City" enforces it's vision in a ubiquitous way, so people just don't break the rules.

Don't people feel anxious all the time? I do when I visit certain places like Singapore, where any misstep feels illegal.

The residents of Singapore I've known seemed at ease in public. The rules really aren't that unreasonable. How much littering do you do annually? I would guess the annual litter count of my friends averages around zero.

Press freedom is limited in Singapore and that is a significant problem for its democracy. As a tourist this is unlikely to impact you. Otherwise, rule of law is paramount in Singapore.

Re: We installed a single turnstile to feel secure

#163

Post by lenkite »

hamdingers wrote: post #112
wredcoll wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The extreme punishments for breaking the law might have something to do with it. Historically speaking, this is almost never true. People constantly think the solution is crueler punishments and we have hundreds of years of records of what happens.

People who commit crimes generally do not think they will be caught and therefore the punishment is of no concern to them. The better way to deter crime[1] is to convince more of the public that people who commit crimes are usually caught. Preferably by actually catching people who commit crimes. 1. aside from the obviously effective but difficult to implement deterrent of meeting everyone's physical needs

> People who commit crimes generally do not think they will be caught and therefore the punishment is of no concern to them.

The mere possibility of severe butt-pain keeps all the would-be criminals in line.

I can definitely get away with it, but just in case I cannot - it's not a mere jail holiday that I face as consequence - I wont be able to even sit down without screaming like a baby -> The foolish criminal becomes wise and the hardened criminal becomes enlightened with this fundamental realization.

The Possibility of Pulverizing Pain via the Holy Cane is the Divine Motivation to Obey the Law.

Re: We installed a single turnstile to feel secure

#164

Post by sciencejerk »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #154
firefoxd wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get the password if it's not in the cookie? When it's in the cookies, any 3rd party script can swipe it.

A third party script that's embedded into the task management website? Otherwise I don't see how it's going to get to the cookie. And if it is embedded into the website, it can force a fresh login and steal the cookie that way. And you can set HttpOnly to stop javascript from being able to access the cookie... but that still won't stop the attack of making them log in again.

The threat model I imagined here was:

1. Initial access to physical machine, most likely via phishing malware, reckless employees downloading untrusted content, or bad luck.

2. Malware looks for browser cookies, hoping to steal temporary credentials but instead gains persistent creds, which grant Jira access. People re-use passwords; malware tries this password against AdUser and any other systems or other corp user accounts it can find

3. Direct Jira access used to pivot, that custom Jira app is probed for app vulns (likely given design).

Re: We installed a single turnstile to feel secure

#165

Post by khafra »

halapro wrote: post #157
some_random wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not actually the extreme punishments, it's the consistent small punishments. It's that you'll actually, seriously get a ticket for littering, even if it's a relatively small ticket. The "Fine City" enforces it's vision in a ubiquitous way, so people just don't break the rules.

Don't people feel anxious all the time? I do when I visit certain places like Singapore, where any misstep feels illegal.

I spent a few days in Singapore, long ago. I felt slightly anxious, but mostly because I wasn't familiar with the rules. I'm confident that, if I spent a year or two there, I would quickly become far less anxious than in other places--because the rules are so clear and consistently enforced. The less of a judgement call is involved, the less there is to be uncertain about.

Think about it: Is it better to have a posted speed limit of 65mph and a real speed limit of 75mph, and you just have to learn from experience where the real limit is? Or is it better to post 75mph and fine any driver as soon as they exceed it?

Re: We installed a single turnstile to feel secure

#166

Post by HauntingPin »

halapro wrote: post #157
some_random wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not actually the extreme punishments, it's the consistent small punishments. It's that you'll actually, seriously get a ticket for littering, even if it's a relatively small ticket. The "Fine City" enforces it's vision in a ubiquitous way, so people just don't break the rules.

Don't people feel anxious all the time? I do when I visit certain places like Singapore, where any misstep feels illegal.

Don't litter, don't do drugs, don't chew gum, don't drink in public after 10:30pm, and only smoke in designated areas. It really isn't that difficult.

Re: We installed a single turnstile to feel secure

#167

Post by yreg »

Gigachad wrote: post #122
some_random wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not actually the extreme punishments, it's the consistent small punishments. It's that you'll actually, seriously get a ticket for littering, even if it's a relatively small ticket. The "Fine City" enforces it's vision in a ubiquitous way, so people just don't break the rules.

This seems like the most effective solution. Imagine if you knew that if you littered, there is a 100% chance you would get a $10 fine immediately. Almost no one would litter ever again, even though the fine is much smaller than the fine is in most countries. Problem is it just takes a lot of resources to police, more than the fine revenue. But with CCTV and computer vision it's getting increasingly cheap.

My city semi-recently introduced a citywide parking system. They have hired plenty of inspectors and there is like 95% chance you will get a ticket if you don't pay for the parking.

No one breaks the rules intentionally anymore.

Re: We installed a single turnstile to feel secure

#168

Post by RobotToaster »

lenkite wrote: post #160
some_random wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not actually the extreme punishments, it's the consistent small punishments. It's that you'll actually, seriously get a ticket for littering, even if it's a relatively small ticket. The "Fine City" enforces it's vision in a ubiquitous way, so people just don't break the rules.

> It's not actually the extreme punishments, it's the consistent small punishments. Not just the consistent small punishments, but the painful punishments. Pain is an extremely good, human motivator. Why destroy someones life and spend valuable taxpayer money with a 10 year imprisonment, when a rigorous caning session will be 10x more effective ? Many criminals will loudly thump their chest if punishment is merely ja…

I guess Singapore doesn't have a lot of masochists?

Re: We installed a single turnstile to feel secure

#169

Post by yreg »

mikepurvis wrote: post #110
hamdingers wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Late 2010s. We actually did have badges but the doors were only locked outside work hours, so nobody carried them. The thief had to walk past a security desk in the lobby, take the elevator up to our floor, walk past a front desk to the kitchen, then open a door to get to the office area. Probably sounded like enough layers for whoever was in charge of security at the time, but both desks were frequently unoccupied d…

Interesting. I feel like most places still make you badge into the doors during business hours, and even specifically encourage not permitting tailgating, sometimes tied to a purported safety concern around being able to know who is in the building in an emergency... though honestly at most shops I bet no one has any idea how to get a report like "everyone who has badged in in since 6am this morning".

My company worked just like hamdingers describes until about 5 years ago. An x-box went missing at some point though.

Re: We installed a single turnstile to feel secure

#170

Post by lenkite »

RobotToaster wrote: post #168
lenkite wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not actually the extreme punishments, it's the consistent small punishments. Not just the consistent small punishments, but the painful punishments. Pain is an extremely good, human motivator. Why destroy someones life and spend valuable taxpayer money with a 10 year imprisonment, when a rigorous caning session will be 10x more effective ? Many criminals will loudly thump their chest if punishment is merely ja…

I guess Singapore doesn't have a lot of masochists?

Even Masochists have a limit to Pain Tolerance. Unless you are talking about 1-in-a-billion "Ironman" guy with dead nerves or someone totally drugged, the overwhelming majority of human beings cannot last beyond the 10th stroke at the maximum without begging for mercy.

Singapore's judicial caning officers (jokingly called "commandos") are trained to deliver strokes in a way that inflicts MAXIMUM pain while staying within strict procedural limits to avoid permanent injury.

Officers undergo specific training on posture, swing technique, accurate aiming, and using full body weight to generate high force and speed, up to around 160 km/h at impact, with forces exceeding 800–900 Newtons.

"Strokes are precisely placed to avoid criss-crossing (creating a neat "ladder" pattern) and to ensure consistency and full effect rather than randomness."

The explicit goal of the technique is to maximize pain per stroke: they are trained to induce as much pain as possible with each blow.

There are several examples of criminals who had multiple arrests and jail sentences, but after their first and last caning session quit criminal life and turned over a new leaf.

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