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Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

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Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#161

Post by JCattheATM »

mrweasel wrote: post #126
danaris wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in my 40s, and I have only gotten more and more progressive as I've "grown up". You want to know why? Because I've met more marginalized people. When I was 16, I didn't know anyone who was openly queer, and I lived in a moderately-affluent, nearly-all-white area of the US. Now, I know many people who are queer, poor, disabled, and/or people of color, and because I was raised to care about people and believe to va…

It's funny how people say that: "You'll get more conservative as you grow older". So far that hasn't happened. I basically know zero queer, poor, coloured, disabled or other types of people that might struggle to fit in to modern society, but in the past 30 years I've only become more and more accepting of the choices of others. Only weird twist is that I have become a royalist.

> It's funny how people say that: "You'll get more conservative as you grow older". So far that hasn't happened.

It's not from 20 to 40, it's from like 50 to 70, as peoples critical thinking skills go and they become more gullible, more susceptible to manipulation and misinformation. It remains to be seen if it will happen with a tech savvy elderly population though.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#162

Post by archagon »

kjksf wrote: post #106
smspillaz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they do meaningfully try to address this. Almost every country in the west is tightening it's system. In the UK claiming ILR will take a significantly longer period of lawful residence, and a shorter time will require you to meet a high income threshold. It is nearly impossible to get PR in Canada now unless you are fluent in both English and French and have a PhD or several years of canadian work experience. The…

The only meaningful action would be to stop well fare for immigrants. You don't work, you don't have money. Madness is for UK government to tax UK citizens to pay for housing and food of immigrants. Incentives drive behavior. If you're African and see you can live for free in England, of course you'll try to get that deal. And in age of social media, they know. Denmark did that and saw dramatic drop in number of peop…

You proclaim these sentiments to be in the majority, but they are not. The people who proclaim them are just loud.

A common strategy of the far right.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#163

Post by roysting »

cedws wrote: post #69
roysting wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you believe you have lost freedom of movement, I’ve met British people all over Europe. If I can meet a Russian living in Switzerland in Amsterdam and a British couple that took the ferry from the island, why are you not free to “move”? On a related note; do you enjoy what America is right now? Because centralizing power and handing your country’s (American states are/were/should be essentially countries)…

>What makes you believe you have lost freedom of movement Uh, the fact that I cannot stay in Europe for more than 90 days in a 180 day period without a visa? As for all that other rubbish, every European city I’ve been to lives better than the people where I live in London. That’s proof enough for me that the EU is working.

[dead]

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#164

Post by danaris »

JCattheATM wrote: post #161
mrweasel wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how people say that: "You'll get more conservative as you grow older". So far that hasn't happened. I basically know zero queer, poor, coloured, disabled or other types of people that might struggle to fit in to modern society, but in the past 30 years I've only become more and more accepting of the choices of others. Only weird twist is that I have become a royalist.

> It's funny how people say that: "You'll get more conservative as you grow older". So far that hasn't happened. It's not from 20 to 40, it's from like 50 to 70, as peoples critical thinking skills go and they become more gullible, more susceptible to manipulation and misinformation. It remains to be seen if it will happen with a tech savvy elderly population though.

No; what you describe is certainly a phenomenon that exists, but it's not primarily what people talk about when they say that you'll get more conservative when you get older.

IME, what they mean is two different things:

First, the fact that it can be hard to keep up with change—technological, cultural, all types—for several decades straight. When the world changes dramatically between when you're 10 and when you're 30, and then again between when you're 30 and when you're 50, it can be really hard to be willing to keep changing with it. New things become the enemy. Why in my day, we paid with credit cards by running an imprinter over them with a big ka-chunk, and we liked it! None of this newfangled chip and pin garbage. There are too many chips in things anyway! Etc.

And second, the fact that, before my generation, it was basically a guarantee that as you went from 20, to 40, to 60, you would be getting meaningfully wealthier, and as such, identifying with the financial political issues of your new socioeconomic class...and picking up their cultural politics by osmosis.

But two major things are breaking these assumptions.

The second thing above no longer holds. Starting with younger Gen X and elder Millennials, we just haven't had the opportunities to grow our wealth that our parents and grandparents did at the same ages. We're still identifying with the younger people who don't and can't own homes.

And there's been a tectonic cultural shift during our lifetimes, bringing queer people out into the light in ways that they had never been allowed to be before. Obergefell v Hodges broke open the closet and let gay people come out, and the rest of the queer community has been following them ever since. For those of us who genuinely believe in loving our fellow human beings and giving them true equality, that makes it much, much harder to accept a status quo (or reversions to an earlier one) that denies them those rights, simply because we all really know they're there in a way most of us didn't before.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#165

Post by archagon »

crims0n wrote: post #103
ido wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the average and mean UK citizen is unambiguously better off today than whenever the golden age of the empire was.

I don’t doubt that, it’s just crazy for me to think that less than 100 years ago they were six times the size of the Roman Empire, and the dominant superpower on earth.

Why is ruthlessly dominating other countries some sort of virtue?

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#166

Post by eudamoniac »

blfr wrote: post #59

It is constantly shocking to me that no matter how many times and where in the west people vote against immigration (which is what most of these votes boil down to), they can never get it. It's truly a crown in the gutter moment where you can be completely off-the-wall nuts (vide AfD) and, if you're just willing to campaign on anti-immigration, your ranks will instantly swell. Yet the establishment is somehow complet…

[flagged]

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#167

Post by ycucucjc »

breakyerself wrote: post #113
kjksf wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what data? The immigration we're talking about, the one of Africans etc. immigrants flooding west, is destructive to the economies based on pretty much every statistic I've seen. Those immigrants are on welfare in disproportional numbers compared to native population. E.g. in US 72% Somalis are on welfare and the same stats are in West Europe. They cost the state gigantic amount of money. And per-capita crim…

> 72% Somalis are on welfare and the same stats are in West Europe. This is bullshit. Donald Trump isn't a credible source on statistics about immigration. The highest percentage I can find for food stamps is 54% and a high percentage of food stamps recipients are employed. https://cis.org/Report/Somali-Immigrants-Minnesota?utm_sourc... Asylum seekers in the US are a net positive source of revenue. They also create j…

A mere 54%.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#168

Post by roysting »

saubeidl wrote: post #57
roysting wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you believe you have lost freedom of movement, I’ve met British people all over Europe. If I can meet a Russian living in Switzerland in Amsterdam and a British couple that took the ferry from the island, why are you not free to “move”? On a related note; do you enjoy what America is right now? Because centralizing power and handing your country’s (American states are/were/should be essentially countries)…

>separate, unique, district, and sovereign countries that can push back against horrible ideas and actions, you end up like us. The separate, unique sovereign countries are the ones with the horrible ideas and actions. See Victor Orban's Hungary. The whole point is to not let some goulash mussolini control European affairs. > The EU is right now talking about becoming a great military force to fight Russia. That’s th…

You really don't see the inherent contradiction and disastrous concept inherent to your mentality? It's inherently authoritarian and supremacist, i.e., you or the ideological cluster you believe you are a member of; knows best and knows infallibly, perfectly so, what exactly needs to be done for any and all people, at all times everywhere equally? ... thus, there is no need for such a thorn in your eye as the elected leader of Hungary Victor Orban... you know better, as you repeat like a trained robot.

It is oddly concerning, scary, and amusing at the same time that you are totally unaware of your own "Mussolini" tendencies of imposing your will or those ideas you have been trained to repeat and parrot on others. Why does everyone, everywhere, in all countries need to bow to the will you have been trained to parrot? Why can't people of other countries decide and do other things?

You really don't see the problem in that?

Have you even ever visited Hungary? Do you speak Hungarian? Do you live there and are culturally invested through generations of ancestors there? Why do you care so much about what Hungarians do in Hungary? What happened to democracy?

Why then if none of those apply to you, would you have any right, let alone care or concern with what Hungarians want, do or who they elect outside of you simply being a useful idiot for the central power in Brussels that commands you to really really care about Hungary's elected leaders?

It's literally no different than the fools we have her in the USA who really really care about combatting and countering and bombing and invading Iran (and Iraq before) ... which has absolutely zero actual, direct national interest implications or effects on the USA in any way. You are quite literally just a "dumb American" now as you morph into the grotesque that is modern America.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#169

Post by rsynnott »

jimmydoe wrote: post #18

Many may change position when they grow up Also young people always blame last gen for whatever, so expects -8 ~ 0 years old would vote for exit again…

While support _is_ higher amongst young people, most polling, when asked as a yes/no question, shows majority support in most or all age cohorts for rejoining.

For instance: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brits-would-overw...

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#170

Post by JCattheATM »

spwa4 wrote: post #160
JCattheATM wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is the uneducated masses who buy the propaganda that immigration is the issue they should care about the most.

The real problem is that for >10 years the a green-left coalition was in power, at least in most of Europe and immigration was greatly encouraged because it would provide clear economic benefits for everyone. There's many stories, but let's call this the average story: "Immigration brings growth, growth advances everyone". Well, it doesn't, at least not at the moment. Oops. Now we can argue why, of course, but a cert…

> Well, it doesn't, at least not at the moment. Oops.

No, it still does.

> but a certain amount of backlash was to be expected.

Ultimately by lower class people who tend to be racist, though. Mostly it's just that they don't like seeing new languages and foods popup.

> in a democracy I would think that arguing that "the uneducated masses" are wrong is a quick path to irrelevancy.

Maybe, but the uneducated masses shouldn't be making these decisions, which is why democracy is the real problem here.

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