Live data from Hacker News

Every company building your AI assistant is now an ad company

juno-labs.com

161–170 of 178 posts

Re: Every company building your AI assistant is now an ad company

#161
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that ads _have_ to be evil. When I look at Google, I see a company that is fully funded by ads, but provides me a number of highly useful services that haven't really degraded over 20 years. Yes, the number of search results that are ads grew over the years, but by and large, Google search and Gmail are tools that serve rather benevolently. And if you're about to disagree with this ask yourself if you'r…

Google is almost cartoonishly evil these days. I think that's pretty much an established fact at this point. I'm not using Gmail, and I don't understand why anyone would voluntarily. It was the worst email client I'd ever used, until I had to use Outlook at my new job. The only Google products I use are YouTube, because that's where the content is. And Android, because IOS is garbage and Apple is only marginally less…

I’ve recently begun using my personal domain as my primary email address, with it forwarding to gmail so I can “get out” easily if I ever had a reason. That said, I’ve found Gmail’s service great, their spam filtering highly effective, (although I haven’t surveyed the competition lately so it’s possible their huge advantage no longer exists) and their features pretty user-friendly (eg the one-click unsubscribe as well as a page to view all your subs in one place). I have never felt like they _abused_ the immense amount of data they have about me nor used it for “evil” purposes; only to profit on relevant ads that are at least clearly marked and unobtrusive. I don’t like that they have so much data on me, but I’ve felt like they’ve been transparent about it, so it’s been on me for making a decision eyes wide open. As opposed to Meta and the shady shit they’ve been caught doing...

That said, I’m open-minded and obviously thinking about this given moving to my own domain.

What’s the evil behavior you’ve experienced? I’m down to move off if I’m oblivious to something…

Re: Every company building your AI assistant is now an ad company

#162

> The always-on future is inevitable Not if you use open source. Not if you pay for services contractually will not mine your data. Not if you support start-ups that commit to privacy and the banning of ads. I said on another thread recently that we need to kill Android, that we need a new Mobile Linux that gives us total control over what our devices do, our software does. Not controlled by a corporation. Not with s…

>> that gives us total control over what our devices do Like rooted Android phone, which is useless for regular folks because many critical apps doesn't work (like banking).

I have a rooted Android phone and my banking app works fine, with relatively little effort to get it working. Though rooting is quite niche, so it's easy enough for banks to disallow it completely when accessing their apps. If root access were as common on mobile devices as on desktop I doubt there would be any problems at all.

Re: Every company building your AI assistant is now an ad company

#163
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem with a lot of this is that the legal system is absolute: if information exists, it is accessible. If the courts order it, nothing you can do can prevent the information being handed over, even if that means a raid of your physical premises. Unless you encrypt it in a manner resistant to any way you can be compelled to decrypt it, the only way to have privacy is for information not to exist in…

> nothing you can do can prevent the information being handed over I'm being a bit flippant here, but thermite typically works fine.

Tricky to take data off the cloud, even with thermite

Re: Every company building your AI assistant is now an ad company

#164
post #16

This spiel is hilarious in the context of the product this company ( https://juno-labs.com/ ) is pushing – an always on, always listening AI device that inserts itself into your and your family’s private lives. “Oh but they only run on local hardware…” Okay, but that doesn't mean every aspect of our lives needs to be recorded and analyzed by an AI. Are you okay with private and intimate conversations and moments (inc…

I agree. I also don't really have an ambient assistant problem. My phone is always nearby and Siri picks up wake words well (or I just hold the powerbutton). My problem is Siri doesn't do any of this stuff well. I'd really love to just get it out of the way so someone can build it better.

Honestly this has been my main issue with the tech privacy issue for years.

I love smart gadgets. I really wanted to go all in and automate my life, and the whole 'personal data' thing seemed like a really fair trade off for what was promised.

Only, they took all the data and never really delivered the convenience.

I spent about 10 years trying to figure out why WearOS needed to collect all my data, all the time, even when I wasn't wearing a watch, and yet when it crashed every few weeks, there was no way to restore anything from a backup. Had to start again from scratch every time (or ADB). What's the point in collecting all that data when I couldn't usefully access any of it?

Same thing with Google home, more or less. I wasn't a big fan of the terms and conditions, but hey, it's super convenient just being able to announce 'ok Google I need to get out of bed soon' and have it turn on the lights, play music etc.

Only, some mornings it wouldn't do that. Wouldn't even remember that I'd set an alarm. And alarms kinda need to be reliable: if they work 19 times out of 20, that's not actually good enough to rely on. Dumb alarm clocks, or phones, you can be pretty sure the alarm will go off So, not much point using Google for morning routines and alarms. So, not much point giving it full access to everything I say any time.

I would give it all my data if it could reliably remember to play preset alarms, or give a basic backup and restore option. Hell, I'd probably give Google access to all my photos if the UI wasn't so ugly.

I still don't really understand big techs reasoning here. If data is the new gold and everyone was dying for more ways to track odds us all and harvest our data - why not just build a decent product? If phone batteries lasted for days, people would spend more time on their phones, isn't that what the tech companies want? If competent people worked on making Gmail efficient, light, user friendly, and not crawling with bugs more people would use it, and more data.

It's like the oligarchs trying to take over the world will do literally anything, anything to win, other than paying people to develop decent, reliable products

Re: Every company building your AI assistant is now an ad company

#165
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many jurisdictions in the US (not all!) where you can't be compelled to turn over a password in a criminal case that's specifically against yourself. But that's a narrow exception to the general principle that a court can order you to give them whatever information they'd like.

It's a federal constitutional protection to not be compelled to turn over your password. If you think a jurisdiction can compel you, I would like references.

The ACLU has a good overview (https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/police-should-n...). A number of state-level supreme courts have ruled that the protection you're describing exists, but others have ruled against it, and on the federal level AFAIK only the DC Circuit has made a clear ruling about it.

Re: Every company building your AI assistant is now an ad company

#166

I’ve moved to Opencode, and I don’t see myself ever leaving it (if there were no alternatives ie AI glasses etc)

I've been using it a bit as well. I'm trying to figure out how they're making money off free tier users though. Any ideas?

I haven’t even thought about that tbh. I’m guessing if they have enough of an injection, they’ll “figure it out later”

Re: Every company building your AI assistant is now an ad company

#167
post #123
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless you encrypt it in a manner resistant to any way you can be compelled to decrypt it, In the US you it is not legal to be compelled to turn over a password. It's a violation of your fifth amendment rights. In the UK you can be jailed until you turn over the password.

At Amazon, their travel trainings always recommended giving out your laptop password if asked by law enforcement or immigration, regardless of whether it was legal in the jurisdiction. Then you were to report the incident as soon as possible afterwards, and you'd have to change your password and possibly get your laptop replaced. That kind of policy makes sense for the employee's safety, but it definitely had me thin…

You can make it so employees don’t have ambient access to data, and require multi-party approval for all actions that require user data. Giving away a user password should be treated as a routine risk.

I’m not saying that’s how it actually works, and this process doesn’t have warts, but the ideal of individual employees not having direct access is not novel.

Re: Every company building your AI assistant is now an ad company

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you okay with private and intimate conversations and moments (including of underage family members) being saved for replaying later? Is this somehow fundamentally different from having memories? Because I thought about it, and decided that personally I do - with one important condition, though. I do because my memories are not as great as I would like them to be, and they decline with stress and age. If a machi…

Humbly offer this, a cautionary tale perhaps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funes_the_Memorious https://www.mathfiction.net/files/Mathfiction%20-%20Borges%2...

I’m not sure I understand the morale of the story. Would you share yours?

A crudest summary of my understanding is that it’s a tale of some dude with eidetic memory who - as a consequence of it - develops a conlang with a huge vocabulary but without abstract concepts.

It’s a stretch for sure, but all I could think of it, is that it’s possibly a tale of how a person with an eidetic memory may find the sheer volume of available information so overwhelming it may even hurt their information processing, like the formation of associative memories. Or something like that, I don’t think I know how it works.

If that, my idea of how machine-assisted memory is supposed to work is opposite of that, it should provide limited but relevant information, with a lot of classifications and references further. Like an encyclopedia with extra fancy natural language querying mechanism. It’s whole point to give awareness about anything user wants to know, faster and more comprehensively than regular diaries, but focused on just what matters for an inquiry.

Fumes, in my understanding, wouldn’t have an idea of a “key” but only “that front door key on a silver keychain” or “smaller mailbox key with a deep scratch on the right side”. If I’d be querying external memory through a natural language interface, it’d be doing opposite of that, heavily relying on abstract ideas as classifiers. Machine that cannot connect “mail”, “key” and “location” into a meaningful query would be useless. Computer “AI” assistant is not an eidetic memory (at least until we start to consider BMI), it’s only a personal encyclopedia at one’s fingertips.

Re: Every company building your AI assistant is now an ad company

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I'm not convinced that there is a point in attempting explaining it That encapsulates my point. I’ve worked on various pieces of legislation. All privately. A few made it into state and federal law. Broadly speaking, the ones that make it are the ones for which you can’t get their supporters to stop calling in on. Privacy issues are notoriously shit at getting people to call their electeds on. The exception is when…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN