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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#161

Post by janalsncm »

temp8830 wrote: post #67
paxys wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is the number. Workers on temporary visas make up ~1% of the labor force in the US. And a large chunk of them will eventually get citizenship or permanent residency and qualify for benefits later in life. Countries like Singapore and all of the Middle East meanwhile rely on a revolving door of cheap immigrant labor. In the extreme cases like Qatar 95% of the working population are on short term visas.…

The US also has a huge pool of undocumented immigrants who don't get any benefits, don't pay into the social security system, and can be paid below minimum wage (because officially they don't exist). Any time this labor supply is threatened, the construction and agriculture industries rise up (and probably sponsor all those massive protests you see in the news).

> probably sponsor all those massive protests you see in the news

Most Americans do not need to be paid to dislike fascism.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#162

Post by watwut »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #133
paulddraper wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you accept that cancer is a death sentence, it’s not absurd to “self fund” your insurance with a nest egg. You can shop around quite a bit for non urgent care, and get good cash discount.

How much of a nest egg do you think would let you afford a major operation like heart surgery or cancer care?

Even a minor one.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#163

Post by foxyv »

carlosjobim wrote: post #144
goolz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days I wonder about that duty I have. It sure felt obligatory some time ago. I thought of myself as a patriot and that the rule of law was something we we should be proud of. A country whose own anthem spoke of "liberty and justice for all". The current trajectory makes my question a lot of things, including this whole "government pays back that service with benefits" as it will be some time before I ever see a…

There is no "we" and has never been. Anybody who talks to you about "we" or "us" or your "duty" is just seeking to exploit you, hoping that you're dumb enough to fall for it.

There is in fact a we. It's just not based on race, religion, ethnicity, language, gender, or sexuality. "We" are the ones who create and work for a living instead of living off the backs of others. "They" are immensely wealthy oligarchs that exploit us using their ownership of land, buildings, communication networks and machines we need to survive.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#164

Post by foxyv »

jcranmer wrote: post #157
foxyv wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social security is an entitlement. They have taken money from your paycheck to fund it. In fact, they have taken more from your paycheck than they will pay back to you in order to pay for an aging population. The extra goes to bonds which the government then uses to reduce inflation when they decide to invade random countries or bail out a bank. Now, why does the government get to decide when I retire with my own mon…

If you don't like it, join the Amish and file a Form 4029.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergo_decedo

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#165

Post by Terr_ »

InkCanon wrote: post #12

Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. I'll break down the misconceptions. The primary purpose of CPF is not a pension scheme. It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens. Financially what happens is the 37% of citizen income buys a long term bond (till retirement age, on average decades) at rock bottom interest rates (it's pegged to the overnight rate or a min…

> Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. [...] it's sovereign wealth

Tangentially, I've had a similar gripe around how some US folks discuss Singapore's similar old-rival Hong Kong. They'll advocate "Hong Kong shows policy X works, we should do X here too", while ignoring the other half of the system required to make it work, policies the same advocates would never want to adopt.

In particular, celebrating HK's "tax freedom" while glossing over how the government does fund expenditures. It's the ultimate landlord, deliberately constraining supply (with high subsidies to the poor to prevent revolt), and draws from its huge [0] sovereign-wealth fund.

[0] Huge by any US standards, even if far smaller than Singapore or Norway. To put the per-capita amounts in context, if the US is 1x, then HK=80x, Singapore=356x, Norway=379x.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#166

Post by f33d5173 »

philwelch wrote: post #74
zozbot234 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It covers a major individual cost and need (retirement, medical, housing) instead of just throwing it into a tax. Forced saving makes it a tax. It's essentially no different than payroll taxes in the U.S. that fund Social Security. Buying government bonds is still marginally better accounting than a complete Ponzi scam like Social Security in the U.S., but even that ultimately amounts to the same thing - the govern…

The social security trust fund does buy government bonds.

Social security is not a savings account and is currently underfunded.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#167

Post by greedo »

paulddraper wrote: post #119
atomicnumber3 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the 4chan retirement plan. Die of a preventable cause at age 42 while waiting for your captcha.

If you accept that cancer is a death sentence, it’s not absurd to “self fund” your insurance with a nest egg. You can shop around quite a bit for non urgent care, and get good cash discount.

If you accept cancer as a death sentence, you're an idiot. I had cancer at age 41. If I left it untreated, sure I'd be dead, probably by age 43. But I'm not an idiot, I had good health insurance, I was treated, and now that health event is over twenty years in the past.

Had I self-funded with a (non-existent) nest egg, I would still be in debt over $600k. Instead, my insurance had to deal with that...

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#168

Post by dsign »

bluGill wrote: post #22

You know who they didn't interview: those who regret saving so much. Many of those people are dead and so the regret is something we can only apply on assumption that they would. I've known a few people who unexpectedly died before they hit retirement age. I've know a few people who retired and died suddenly. The vast majority of people in a "first world" country have an expected lifespan of about 80 - but there is a…

Indeed. In fact, I would go further and say than, more than saving money, one should make preparations for a dignified passing should one's time come early. Living happy, dying before a gruesome disease completely erases that treasure. And, if destiny has it that one gets old enough, and one does so with little more than a camping tent, leaving this world because the night was too cold and one succumbed to hypothermia beats what most people get at the end.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#169

Post by mattmanser »

glimshe wrote: post #151
mech998877 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90%+ chance the person you are replying to has health insurance that will cover them in case of medical disaster.

I absolutely have health insurance, the most expensive available on my state. That doesn't protect me 100%, but what health insurance (including the ones available at most companies) does? People who have poor money management skills believe that FIRE=Ramen and no health insurance... In fact, it's about getting a 30K car (the one I bought new 3 years ago) instead a 70K car despite having the money.

99% of people have poor money management skills? It's statements like this that makes FIRE a fringe scene.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#170

Post by mothballed »

greedo wrote: post #167
paulddraper wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you accept that cancer is a death sentence, it’s not absurd to “self fund” your insurance with a nest egg. You can shop around quite a bit for non urgent care, and get good cash discount.

If you accept cancer as a death sentence, you're an idiot. I had cancer at age 41. If I left it untreated, sure I'd be dead, probably by age 43. But I'm not an idiot, I had good health insurance, I was treated, and now that health event is over twenty years in the past. Had I self-funded with a (non-existent) nest egg, I would still be in debt over $600k. Instead, my insurance had to deal with that...

600k once in 40 years is cheap compared to the total cost of insurance, especially when you consider the compound interest you could have made on premiums not paid, plus with the freedom to get cancer care cheaper someplace privately outside the US.

Your insurance company got the last laugh by a long shot. A typical family on insurance would pay $600,000 (between their take-home and the reduced wages paid by employers to cover insurance) in just 25 years, and that's before considering the opportunity cost of lost investments/yield.

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