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Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

pol.is

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Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#161
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not even sure what technocratic leadership means. For one, I don't believe people should need to be led. Being led makes sense when quick decisions are more important than optimal decisions, such as in war. Other times, people should be free to lead their lives as they wish. Another thing: experts can explain their opinions. I cringe every time I see a political discussion without a white board, diagrams, graphs…

It was a lovely discussion and made consider other approaches, thank you. Sadly, I’m must leave the conversation now. I’m very ill these past few years and am unlikely to recover. I suggest reading Elinor Ostrom’s book, Governing the Commons. It describes fundamentals of successful cooperative organization. Specifically, successful cooperatives don’t grow bigger, they replicate bright spots while staying local and sm…

Sorry to hear that.

I added it to me to-read list.

And yes, I do also think scaling is the biggest challenge in bottom up / democratic / cooperative organizations, but I think their critics overstate it. Democratic states might be dysfunctional on many levels but they do function enough to not fall apart, mostly. Anyway, I guess I'll know more when I get to the book, thanks.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm of a similar mindset... pure/liquid democracy is literally rule by mob. Rule by people is literally rule by derogatory term for people? The “literally” seems to suggest that this is supposed to communicate more than a personal feeling towards a subject. And yet.

If the majority of people think it's okay to kill off a specific subset of society, does that actually make it okay/good? Worked up mobs make horrible decisions.

If some moneyed elites as well as associates that are high up in culture, science and similar decide to make a network based on enslavement, child molestation, human trafficking, rape, and torture, does that make it okay/good? Oh wait, that already actually happened.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand about Polis though is who is creating these less biased polls full of unbiased positions that people can vote on? It takes a lot of intelligence and wisdom to even formulate a question that isn't tainted by layers and layers of political innuendo. You can't just put something like "Do you believe in the rights of the unborn child?" into a system like this and expect quality outcomes. I guess t…

Many (most?) issues don't fit on a single dimension. Using your example, people hold positions that include "Absolutely!", "Yes, but also the rights of the mother.", "Yes, but I won't impose my beliefs on others.", "No, but I don't think people who feel otherwise should be forced to pay for abortions through taxes.", and many others. In addition to the problem with biased questions you note, there are often built in…

it's far worse than that, people don't even agree on the definition of words. In this example what a 'child' is.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the majority of people think it's okay to kill off a specific subset of society, does that actually make it okay/good? Worked up mobs make horrible decisions.

If some moneyed elites as well as associates that are high up in culture, science and similar decide to make a network based on enslavement, child molestation, human trafficking, rape, and torture, does that make it okay/good? Oh wait, that already actually happened.

Are you claiming that was a good thing? Your argument doesn't make any sense in the context given.

My entire point is some things are absolutely wrong, even if a majority of people would support it. Your point above does nothing to counter that argument.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#165
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are capable of writing correctly. Source: your post. If someone cannot be bothered, why should we bother to read what they have to say? I think it is a good signal. EDIT: plus it is not an allow or not allow. The more errors the more downvoted, so it is a small adjustment.

You shouldn't care about presentation but others will. I think an llm approach could be good. You make suggestions in however insane language and it converts the format to something boring and mundane accepted by all clients. Some people are to brief, some elaborate more than necessary.

> You shouldn't care about presentation

Says who? Having good grammar is a signal that the person cares enough. I am surprised more forums do not use this signal.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are capable of writing correctly. Source: your post. If someone cannot be bothered, why should we bother to read what they have to say? I think it is a good signal. EDIT: plus it is not an allow or not allow. The more errors the more downvoted, so it is a small adjustment.

Of course, that excludes 90% of word plays.

If you provide some example word plays we can verify if that is true. I disagree personally.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If some moneyed elites as well as associates that are high up in culture, science and similar decide to make a network based on enslavement, child molestation, human trafficking, rape, and torture, does that make it okay/good? Oh wait, that already actually happened.

Are you claiming that was a good thing? Your argument doesn't make any sense in the context given. My entire point is some things are absolutely wrong, even if a majority of people would support it. Your point above does nothing to counter that argument.

The contrast is a between thing that really happened with a (so far) hypothetical.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#168
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't care about presentation but others will. I think an llm approach could be good. You make suggestions in however insane language and it converts the format to something boring and mundane accepted by all clients. Some people are to brief, some elaborate more than necessary.

> You shouldn't care about presentation Says who? Having good grammar is a signal that the person cares enough. I am surprised more forums do not use this signal.

milton h. erickson developed conversational hypnosis to bypass the conscious mind. This is of course a great accomplishment in the field.

It also had me completely convinced that one should only listen to what is said rather than how.

So, (lol) with me you score extra points if you properly em dash but not the kind of points one would want.

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