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The $100B megadeal between OpenAI and Nvidia is on ice

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Re: The $100B megadeal between OpenAI and Nvidia is on ice

#161
post #53

will there be more 5090 FE cards at a lower price? one can only hope

I would love it if AI fizzled out and nvidia had to go back to making gaming cards. Just trying to have a simple life here and play video games, and ridiculous hype after hype keeps making it expensive.

Re: The $100B megadeal between OpenAI and Nvidia is on ice

#162
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does have their own small foundation models but it's not clear they require a lot of GPUs to train.

Do you mean like OCR in photos? In that case, yes, I didn't think about that. Are there other use cases aside from speach to text in Siri?

I think they are also used for translation, summarization, etc. They're also available to other apps: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/FoundationModels

Re: The $100B megadeal between OpenAI and Nvidia is on ice

#164
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for all the players. Not everyone has over-raised their fundamentals.

Literally the whole economy has "over-raised its fundamentals" though. Not everyone is going to fail in exactly this way, but (again, pretty much literally) everyone is exposed to a feedback-driven crash from "everyone else" that ended up too exposed. We all know this is a speculative run-up. We all know it'll end somehow. Crashes always start with something like this. Is this the tipping point? Damned if I know. But…

Just print so much money that people (yes, banks are people!) have nothing better to do than buy stonks. Problem solved!

Re: The $100B megadeal between OpenAI and Nvidia is on ice

#165
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are two things that happened 1. OpenAI bet largely on consumer. Consumers have mostly rejected AI. And in a lot of cases even hate it (can't go on TikTok or Reddit without people calling something slop, or hating on AI generated content). Anthropic on the other hand went all in on B2B and coding. That seems to be the much better market to be in. 2. Sam Altman is profoundly unlikable.

Is CEO likeability a reliable predictor?

good point.

I don't think it is at all

The CEO just has to have followership: the people who work there have to think that this is a good person to follow. Even they don't have to "like" him

Re: The $100B megadeal between OpenAI and Nvidia is on ice

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s ok, but AI is useful in particular use cases for many people. I use it a lot and I prefer the Codex 5.2 extra high reasoning model. The AI slop and dumb shit on IG/YT is like the LCD of humans though. They’ve always been there and always will be there to be annoying af. Before AI slop we had brain rot made by humans. I think over time it (LLM based) will become like an augmenter, not something like what they’r…

some people are so determined to be positive about AI that at some point it just comes across like they’re getting paid to be

There are quite a lot of posts like that. Just a bit too eager. Proselytising as if AI is a religion.

Re: The $100B megadeal between OpenAI and Nvidia is on ice

#167
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is sitting this whole thing out. Bizarre.

I mean, they tried. They just tried and failed. It may work out for them, though — two years ago it looked like lift-off was likely, or at least possible, so having a frontier model was existential. Today it looks like you might be able to save many billions by being a fast follower. I wouldn’t be surprised if the lift-off narrative comes back around though; we still have maybe a decade until we really understand the…

I think you are right. Their generative AI was clearly underwhelming. They have been losing many staff from their AI team.

I’m not sure it matters though. They just had a stonking quarter. iPhone sales are surging ahead. Their customers clearly don’t care about AI or Siri’s lacklustre performance.

Re: The $100B megadeal between OpenAI and Nvidia is on ice

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back then he had a PR firm working for him, getting him cameos and good press. But in 2020 he fired them deciding that his own "radically awesome" personality doesn't need any filtering. Personally I don't think Elon is the worst billionaire, he's just the one dumb enough to not have any PR (since 2020). They're all pretty reprehensible creatures.

Yeah, Putin is probably the worst billionaire. Elon might be a close second though, or maybe it's a US politician if they actually are a billionaire.

Peter Thiel who thinks the Pope or Greta Thunberg might be the antichrist, and that freedom is incompatible with democracy

https://www.nationalmemo.com/peter-thiel-antichrist

Re: The $100B megadeal between OpenAI and Nvidia is on ice

#169
post #129

It’s probably not really related, but this bug and the saga of OpenAI trying and failing to fix it for two weeks is not indicative of a functional company: https://github.com/openai/codex/issues/9253 OTOH, if Anthropic did that to Claude Code, there wasn’t a moderately straightforward workaround, and Anthropic didn’t revert it quickly, it might actually be a risk-the-whole-business issue. Nothing makes people jump sh…

Funny that they can't just get the "AI" to fix it.

I expect the “AI” created it in the first place.

Re: The $100B megadeal between OpenAI and Nvidia is on ice

#170
I felt anxious about all the insane valuations and spending around AI lately, and I knew it couldn't last (I mean there's only so much money, land, energy, water, business value, etc). But I didn't really know when it was going to collapse, or why. But recently I've been diving into using local models, and now it's way more clear. There seems to be a specific path for the implosion of AI:

- Nvidia is the most valuable company. Why? It makes GPUs. Why does that matter? Because AI is faster on them than CPUs, ASICs are too narrowly useful, and because first-mover advantage. AMD makes GPUs that work great for AI, but they're a fraction of the value of Nvidia, despite the fact that they make more useful products than Nvidia. Why? Nvidia just got there first, people started building on them, and haven't stopped, because it's the path of least resistance. But if Nvidia went away tomorrow, investors would just pour money into AMD. So Nvidia doesn't have any significant value compared to AMD other than people are lazy and are just buying the hot thing. Nvidia was less valuable than AMD before, they'll return there eventually; all AMD needs is more adoption and investment.

- Every frontier model provider out there has invested billions to get models to the advanced state they're in today. But every single time they advance the state of the art, open weights soon match them. Very soon, there won't be any significant improvement, and open weights will be the same as frontier, meaning there's no advantage to paying for frontier models. So within a few years, there will be no point to paying OpenAI, Anthropic, etc. Again, these were just first-movers in a commodity market. The value just isn't there. They can still provide unique services, tailored polished apps, etc (Anthropic is already doing this by banning users who have the audacity to use their fixed-price plans with non-Anthropic tools). But with AI code tools, anyone can do this. They are making themselves obsolete.

- The final form of AI coding is orchestrated agent-driven vibe-coding with safeguards. Think an insane asylum with a bowling league: you still want 100 people to autonomously (and in parallel) knock the pins knocked over, but you have to prevent the inmates from killing anyone. That's where the future of coding is. It's just too productive to avoid. But with open models and open source interfaces, anyone can do this, whether with hosted models (on any of 50 different providers), or a Beowulf cluster of cobbled together cheap hardware in a garage.

- Eventually, in like 5-10 years (a lifetime away), after AI Beowulfs have been a fad for a while, people will tire of it and move back to the cloud, where they can run any model they want on a K8s cluster full of GPUs, basically the same as today. Difference between now and then is, right now everyone is chasing Anthropic because their tools and models are slightly better. But by then, they won't be. Maybe people will use their tools anyway? But they won't be paying for their models. And it's not just price: one of the things you learn quickly by running models, is they're all good for different things. Not only that, you can tweak them, fine-tune them, and make them faster, cheaper, better than what's served up by frontier models. So if you don't care about the results or cost, you could use frontier, but otherwise you'll be digging deep into them, the same way some companies invest in writing their own software vs paying for it.

- Finally, there's the icing on the cake: LLMs will be cooked in 10 years. I keep reading from AI research experts that "LLMs are a dead end" - and it turns out it's true. LLMs are basically only good because we invest an unsustainable amount of money in the brute-forcing of a relatively dumb form of iteration: download all knowledge, do some mind-bogglingly expensive computational math on it, tweak the reasults, repeat. There's only so many of that loop you can do, because fundamentally, all you're doing is trying to guess your way to an answer from a picture of the past. It doesn't actually learn, the way a living organism learns, from experience, in real-time, going forward; LLMs only look backward. Like taking a snapshot of all the books a 6 year old has read, then doing tweaks to try to optimize the knowledge from those books, then doing it again. There's only so much knowledge, only so many tweaks. The sensory data of the lived experience of a single year of life of a 6 year old is many times more information than everything ever recorded by man. Reinforcement Learning actually gives you progressive, continuously improved knowledge. But it's slow, which is why we aren't doing it much. We do LLMs instead because we can speed-run them. But the game has an end, and it's the total sum of our recorded knowledge and our tweaks.

So LLMs will plateau, frontier models will make no sense, all lines of code will be hands-off, and Nvidia will return to making hardware for video games. All within about 10 years. With the caveat that there might be a shift in global power and economic stability that interrupts the whole game.... but that's where we stand if things keep on course. Personally, I am happy to keep using AI and reap the benefits of all these moronic companies dumping their money into it, because the open weights continue being useful after those companies are dead. But I'm not gonna be buying Nvidia stock anytime soon, and I'm definitely not gonna use just one frontier model company.

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