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TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

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Re: TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

#161

Post by card_zero »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #160
card_zero wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if things interest you, does that not also provide dopamine? If the interesting things are easily available, are they "free" and addictive and bad? If they're good because they're interesting, is TikTok not interesting to those who like it? If you had a pinball machine and it distracted you, would that be bad, or a hobby? Is TikTok more compelling than pinball because of the algorithm? Is the algorithm not merely…

these products are intentionally designed to be addictive by some of the greatest minds of our generation. If you were intentionally designing society this would be the opposite of what you'd do. Our children are effectively enslaved through basic trinkets and manipulation to serve as eye-balls for ad impressions to fuel equity value in silicon valley. It's fucked and it was intentionally designed to be this fucked.…

OK: how?

Re: TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

#162

Post by Quarrelsome »

card_zero wrote: post #161
Quarrelsome wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

these products are intentionally designed to be addictive by some of the greatest minds of our generation. If you were intentionally designing society this would be the opposite of what you'd do. Our children are effectively enslaved through basic trinkets and manipulation to serve as eye-balls for ad impressions to fuel equity value in silicon valley. It's fucked and it was intentionally designed to be this fucked.…

OK: how?

don't act coy. We did it.

Hooked - How to build habit forming products - Nir Eyal.

We did it intentionally.

Re: TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

#163

Post by Simboo »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #160
card_zero wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if things interest you, does that not also provide dopamine? If the interesting things are easily available, are they "free" and addictive and bad? If they're good because they're interesting, is TikTok not interesting to those who like it? If you had a pinball machine and it distracted you, would that be bad, or a hobby? Is TikTok more compelling than pinball because of the algorithm? Is the algorithm not merely…

these products are intentionally designed to be addictive by some of the greatest minds of our generation. If you were intentionally designing society this would be the opposite of what you'd do. Our children are effectively enslaved through basic trinkets and manipulation to serve as eye-balls for ad impressions to fuel equity value in silicon valley. It's fucked and it was intentionally designed to be this fucked.…

I agree.

Re: TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

#164

Post by card_zero »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #162
card_zero wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK: how?

don't act coy. We did it. Hooked - How to build habit forming products - Nir Eyal. We did it intentionally.

While I read through snippets from that book, I'd like to know what substantive point to look for in it. There's a chapter about ethics apparently.

Re: TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

#165

Post by codyb »

Liftyee wrote: post #123

Fundamentally, I think having a source of "free dopamine" on tap is not going to do any good. If I can get distracted from my real world tasks anytime, anywhere, the immediate incentives to work on real things disappear. Effectively, one can get stuck in a local minimum. I don't know how to solve it, but personally I've chosen to block as many feeds/algorithms as I can, so I have to make a conscious decision to searc…

I just bought a flip phone and a cool pocket sized camera. I've gotten down to leaving my phone at home a fair amount, and leave my phone on a speaker that's not near anything I sit on when at home.

It's awesome, come on back out to reality. I frequently go out at this point, come back home and go to see if I have any messages and realize my phone was on me the whole time and I had no idea (I also silence pretty much everything...).

I'm super pumped to have an actual camera to play with that's pocket sized too since I did miss the camera. But now I'll have something tremendously superior and can leave that aging device filled with way too many 2FA codes I don't want to inadvertently lose at home.

Re: TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

#166

Post by codyb »

nicholast wrote: post #122

I am less concerned about addiction than i am about introducing micro targeted foreign agendas into our nation’s cultural landscape.

I mean, why not be concerned about both lol? We can do two things at once I think, and both of those things sound fairly negative.

Re: TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

#167

Post by Quarrelsome »

card_zero wrote: post #164
Quarrelsome wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't act coy. We did it. Hooked - How to build habit forming products - Nir Eyal. We did it intentionally.

While I read through snippets from that book, I'd like to know what substantive point to look for in it. There's a chapter about ethics apparently.

Consider the Lean Startup methodology. The darker patterns are where you break down the big picture rationale for the company. You extract metrics that contribute to the company's success (i.e. engagement) and you build a machine that rewards changes to the underlying system that improves those metrics.

If done successfully, you create an unwitting sociopathy, a process that demands the product be as addictive as possible and a culture that is in thrall to the machine that rewards its employees by increasing those metrics. You're no longer thinking about purpose or wondering about what you're doing to your users. You simply realise that if you send this notification at this time, with this colour button, in this place, with this tagline then the machine likes it. Multiple people might contribute a tiny piece of a horrifying and manipulative whole and never quite realise the true horror of the monster they've helped build.

Re: TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

#168

Post by DonHopkins »

aaa_aaa wrote: post #20
DonHopkins wrote: post #10

I'm addicted to pro-Release-the-Epstein-Files, anti-Trump, anti-ICE, and Innocent-Americans-Being-Shot-Dead-in-the-Streets-Then-Accussed-of-Being-Terrorists videos, and they just cut me off cold turkey, dammit! TikTok blocks Epstein mentions and anti-Trump videos, users claim. Alleged censorship comes after investors loyal to Trump take over social media platform. https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/tiktok-epstein-tru…

[dead]

[dead]

Re: TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

#169

Post by card_zero »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #167
card_zero wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I read through snippets from that book, I'd like to know what substantive point to look for in it. There's a chapter about ethics apparently.

Consider the Lean Startup methodology. The darker patterns are where you break down the big picture rationale for the company. You extract metrics that contribute to the company's success (i.e. engagement) and you build a machine that rewards changes to the underlying system that improves those metrics. If done successfully, you create an unwitting sociopathy, a process that demands the product be as addictive as pos…

That horror being..? I understand that this is a ruthless quest for engagement by any means, good or bad. For instance ...?

I don't mean to make you do all the work here: I can see a couple of pages from the introduction which mention "variability" and "investment":

> What distinguishes the Hook Model from a plain vanilla feedback loop is the Hook’s ability to create a craving. Feedback loops are all around us, but predictable ones don’t create desire. The unsurprising response of your fridge light turning on when you open the door doesn’t drive you to keep opening it again and again. However, add some variability to the mix—suppose a different treat magically appears in your fridge every time you open it—and voila, intrigue is created.

So that's "variability". I'm not hugely impressed. "Investment", meanwhile, is when you set preferences or connect to friends, so you feel like you lose out if you stop attending. I can see that these might be foolish ideas. But I can also see that foolish ideas are part of "engaging" with anything - something traditionally wholesome such as a piano, for instance. Imagine I'm a Victorian lady, and I've bought a piano and I invite my friends over for a regular evening of singing art songs, so that's "investment": also we buy new song sheets every time, so there's "variety". I'm totally hooked on this harmless positive thing, am I? Or do I in fact just like it and have free will?

Re: TikTok settles just before social media addiction trial to begin

#170

Post by andai »

codyb wrote: post #165
Liftyee wrote: post #123

Fundamentally, I think having a source of "free dopamine" on tap is not going to do any good. If I can get distracted from my real world tasks anytime, anywhere, the immediate incentives to work on real things disappear. Effectively, one can get stuck in a local minimum. I don't know how to solve it, but personally I've chosen to block as many feeds/algorithms as I can, so I have to make a conscious decision to searc…

I just bought a flip phone and a cool pocket sized camera. I've gotten down to leaving my phone at home a fair amount, and leave my phone on a speaker that's not near anything I sit on when at home. It's awesome, come on back out to reality. I frequently go out at this point, come back home and go to see if I have any messages and realize my phone was on me the whole time and I had no idea (I also silence pretty much…

What kinda phone do you have? I was nostalgic for getting an old nokia, but when I actually did, using it was surprisingly painful. I guess that's kind of the point?

I still need a proper mp3 player (been using an old android) and a camera though.

...and a Kindle, and a fax machine ;)

As a side note, the "old" style Nokias now seem to be running on some kind of emulation... The Nokia startup sound lagged and stuttered and made me die a little inside.

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