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I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

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Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#161

Post by jermaustin1 »

prmoustache wrote: post #155
jermaustin1 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who has been told I'm "morbidly obese" for decades now, I will say that doctors at almost every level look at your chart not you. I've been told time and time again that until I get my weight under control, my health will suffer. I'm 5'8" and weigh on average 210lbs. My BMI isn't even morbidly obese, it is 31, which is just "regular" obese, but on top of that, a DEXA scan shows that I am actually only 25%…

> Doctor's don't care about that Literally all of them?

I can't say literally all, but in my experience with having to get a new GP almost every year because of health insurance changes, location changes, hospital consolidation buying my GPs practice, and multiple doctors retiring or just quitting medicine (my last GP was tired of medicine after practicing for only 3 years). Over the last 20 years, I've had almost 15 GPs across 5 states (NY, NJ, CT, TX, LA). I also have multiple auto immune diseases, so I have had a handful of specialists of various flavors (endocrine, oncology - not for cancer, cardiology, and urology), but only need them occasionally.

Almost every single start of every single appointment (including a follow up from just a couple days prior), they comment about my BMI. It is the rare time they don't that I remember. My last urology appointment the doctor was very congenial, didn't even go over the lab work, just said, everything is looking good, asked how I was feeling, everything good, alright, refilled my prescriptions and left.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#162

Post by vidarh »

harvey9 wrote: post #149
vidarh wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did end up taking a cystatin c test privately to be able to prove to my GP that the results he freaked out over were nonsense. I'm in the UK, and for whatever reason the NHS just doesn't typically do them for basic kidney function - presumably cost, but they were dirt cheap to do privately so...

NICE guidelines. "Evidence on the specific eGFR equations or ethnicity adjustments seen by the committee was not from UK studies so may not be applicable to UK black, Asian and minority ethnic groups. None of the studies included children and young people. The committee was also concerned about the value of P30 as a measure of accuracy (P30 is the probability that the measured value is within 30% of the true value),…

What does ethnicity has to do with anything?

My creatinine levels are high because my body mass - including muscle mass - is well above average. On the basic kidney tests my GP did, my numbers indicated kidney disease. Doing a Cystatin C test showed very clearly that my numbers were firmly in the normal range.

The page does go on to point out the muscle mass issue:

> The committee highlighted the 2008 recommendation, which states that caution should be used when interpreting eGFR and in adults with extremes of muscle mass and on those who consume protein supplements (this was added to recommendation 1.1.1).

Further down they do mention Cystatin C, and seem to have basically decided that a risk of false positives is acceptable because of a lower risk of false negatives. That part is interesting, and it may well be the right decision at a population level.

But if your muscle mass is sufficiently above average, the regular kidney tests done will flag up possible kidney disease every single damn time you do one, and my experience is that UK doctors are totally oblivious to the fact that this is not necessarily cause for concern for a given patient and will often just assume a problem and it will be up to the patient to educate them.

EDIT: What's worse, actually, is the number of times I've had doctors or nurses try to help me to "game" this test by telling me to e.g. drink more before the test next time, seemingly oblivious that irrespective of precision, making changes to conditions that also invalidates it as a way to track changes in eGFR is not helpful.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#163

Post by coldtea »

prmoustache wrote: post #155
jermaustin1 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who has been told I'm "morbidly obese" for decades now, I will say that doctors at almost every level look at your chart not you. I've been told time and time again that until I get my weight under control, my health will suffer. I'm 5'8" and weigh on average 210lbs. My BMI isn't even morbidly obese, it is 31, which is just "regular" obese, but on top of that, a DEXA scan shows that I am actually only 25%…

> Doctor's don't care about that Literally all of them?

When humans talk, they use generalizations (and don't need to annouce them). Here it means that most doctors don't care about that.

Follow that rule next time you read such a statement in a context that's not formal math.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#164

Post by eur0pa »

theshrike79 wrote: post #96
haldujai wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

ChatGPT will actually look at your whole medical history, listen to you, think and check multiple different options before making a decision. You can spend hours chatting with it back and forth. An average human doctor has maybe 15 minutes allotted to getting to know you, analyse and determine a course of action. Which is usually "take some ibuprofen and let's see if it goes away". Then you go again in two weeks with…

A LLM neither "listens" nor "thinks"

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#165

Post by SirMaster »

theshrike79 wrote: post #144
yolo3000 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how the ring detected it in advance? I also discovered my Covid when I looked at my Garmin watch and my resting heart rate was 100, until then I had thought I had too much sun that day.

Some of the metrics were out of whack, I think my average body temp was up along with my resting heart rate both asleep and awake. It somehow takes all that and gave me a "you might be sick" notification.

How is that predicting in advance though? Sounds like it measured active symptoms like a change in body temp etc. That's not prediction, that's reaction.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#167

Post by mrguyorama »

wawayanda wrote: post #16

A year or so ago, I fed my wife's blood work results into chatgpt and it came back with a terrifying diagnosis. Even after a lot of back and forth it stuck to its guns. We went to a specialist who performed some additional tests and explained that the condition cannot be diagnosed with just the original blood work and said that she did not have the condition. The whole thing was a borderline traumatic ordeal that I'm…

>The whole thing was a borderline traumatic ordeal that I'm still pretty pissed about.

Why did you do the thing people calmly explained you should not do? Why are you pissed about experiencing the obvious and known outcome?

In medicine, even a test with "Worrying" results is rarely an actual condition requiring treatment. One reason doctors are so bad at long tail conditions is that they have been trained, both by education and literal direct experience, that chasing down test results without any symptoms is a reliable way to waste money, time, and emotions.

It's a classic statistics 101 topic to look at screening tests and notice that the majority of "positive" outcomes are false positives.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#168

Post by smileysteve »

maxdo wrote: post #13

Typical Western coverage: “How dare they call me unhealthy.” In reality, the doctor said it needs further investigation and that some data isn’t great. They didn’t say “unhealthy”; they said “needs more investigation.” What’s wrong with that? Is the real issue just a bruised Western ego?

Alt; typical western coverage. Has completely ignored other journalists publishing of the plight fitness bands have caused in doctors "am I getting a cold, my watch/ring says I'm getting a cold, give me antibiotics now"

Or how vo2 max is hard to measure, or how not wearing a wearable or wearing it loose changes results, to, I gave an llm a range to rate without really giving it context of what I want the range to really represent or the methods of gathering data.

Tldr; author bought everything, read nothing, complained to an expensive professional, and now hopes that we read his article.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#169

Post by ltbarcly3 »

wawayanda wrote: post #16

A year or so ago, I fed my wife's blood work results into chatgpt and it came back with a terrifying diagnosis. Even after a lot of back and forth it stuck to its guns. We went to a specialist who performed some additional tests and explained that the condition cannot be diagnosed with just the original blood work and said that she did not have the condition. The whole thing was a borderline traumatic ordeal that I'm…

It's interesting because presumably you were too ashamed to tell the doctor "we pasted stuff into chatgpt and it said it means she is sick", because if you had said that he would have looked at the bloodwork and you could have avoided going to a specialist.

It's an interesting cognitive dissonance that you both trusted it enough to go to a specialist but not enough to admit using it.

Re: I let ChatGPT analyze a decade of my Apple Watch data, then I called my doctor

#170

Post by ltbarcly3 »

terribleperson wrote: post #54
wawayanda wrote: post #16

A year or so ago, I fed my wife's blood work results into chatgpt and it came back with a terrifying diagnosis. Even after a lot of back and forth it stuck to its guns. We went to a specialist who performed some additional tests and explained that the condition cannot be diagnosed with just the original blood work and said that she did not have the condition. The whole thing was a borderline traumatic ordeal that I'm…

Do you have a custom prompt/personality set? What is it?

Yea, if only he had said "make sure you are always honest" first!
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