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Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

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Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#161

Post by PatronBernard »

mcv wrote: post #98

This seems to confirm my feeling when using AI too much. It's easy to get started, but I can feel my brain engaging less with the problem than I'm used to. It can form a barrier to real understanding, and keeps me out of my flow. I recently worked on something very complex I don't think I would have been able to tackle as quickly without AI; a hierarchical graph layout algorithm based on the Sugiyama framework, using…

> a hierarchical graph layout algorithm based on the Sugiyama framework, using Brandes-Köpf for node positioning.

I am sorry for being direct but you could have just kept it to the first part of that sentence. Everything after that just sounds like pretentious name dropping and adds nothing to your point.

But I fully agree, for complex problems that require insight, LLMs can waste your time with their sycophancy.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#162

Post by darkwater »

cimi_ wrote: post #113
sdoering wrote: post #111

This reminds me of the recurring pattern with every new medium: Socrates worried writing would destroy memory, Gutenberg's critics feared for contemplation, novels were "brain softening," TV was the "idiot box." That said, I'm not sure "they've always been wrong before" proves they're wrong now. Where I'm skeptical of this study: - 54 participants, only 18 in the critical 4th session - 4 months is barely enough time…

> The historical pattern suggests cognitive abilities shift rather than disappear. Shift to what? This? https://steve-yegge.medium.com/welcome-to-gas-town-4f25ee16d...

What the hell have I just read (or at least skimmed)?? I cannot understand if the author is:

a) serious, but we live on different planets

b) serious with the idea, tongue-in-check in the style and using a lot of self-irony

c) an ironic piece with some real idea

d) he is mocking AI maximalists

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#163

Post by cap11235 »

darkwater wrote: post #162
cimi_ wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The historical pattern suggests cognitive abilities shift rather than disappear. Shift to what? This? https://steve-yegge.medium.com/welcome-to-gas-town-4f25ee16d...

What the hell have I just read (or at least skimmed)?? I cannot understand if the author is: a) serious, but we live on different planets b) serious with the idea, tongue-in-check in the style and using a lot of self-irony c) an ironic piece with some real idea d) he is mocking AI maximalists

Just ignore the rambling crypto shill.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#164

Post by foxes »

mcv wrote: post #98

This seems to confirm my feeling when using AI too much. It's easy to get started, but I can feel my brain engaging less with the problem than I'm used to. It can form a barrier to real understanding, and keeps me out of my flow. I recently worked on something very complex I don't think I would have been able to tackle as quickly without AI; a hierarchical graph layout algorithm based on the Sugiyama framework, using…

Is this a copilot ad?

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#165

Post by raincole »

netsharc wrote: post #21

An obvious comparison is probably the habitual usage of GPS navigation. Some people blindly follow them and some seemingly don't even remember routes they routinely take.

Yes. My father never uses GPS at all. He memorized all the main roads in our city.

It's amazing to see how he navigates the city. But however amazing it is, he's only correct perhaps 95 times out of 100. And the number will only go down as he gets older. Meanwhile he has the 99.99% correct answer right in the front panel.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#166

Post by darkwater »

BlackFly wrote: post #146
sdoering wrote: post #111

This reminds me of the recurring pattern with every new medium: Socrates worried writing would destroy memory, Gutenberg's critics feared for contemplation, novels were "brain softening," TV was the "idiot box." That said, I'm not sure "they've always been wrong before" proves they're wrong now. Where I'm skeptical of this study: - 54 participants, only 18 in the critical 4th session - 4 months is barely enough time…

If you realize that what we remember are the extremized strawman versions of the complaints then you can realize that they were not wrong. Writing did eliminate the need for memorization. How many people could quote a poem today? When oral history was predominant, it was necessary in each tribe for someone to learn the stories. We have much less of that today. Writing preserves accuracy much more (up to conquerors bu…

I think your take is almost irrefutable, unless you frame human history as the only possible way to achieve current humanity status and (unevenly distributed) quality of life.

I also find exhausting the Socrates reference that's ALWAYS brought up in these discussions. It is not the same. Losing the collective ability to recite a 10000 words poem by heart because of books it's not the same thing as stopping to think because an AI is doing the thinking for you.

We keep adding automation layers on top of the previous ones. The end goal would be _thinking_ of something and have it materialized in computer and physical form. That would be the extreme. Would people keep comparing it to Socrates?

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#167

Post by vidarh »

mcv wrote: post #98

This seems to confirm my feeling when using AI too much. It's easy to get started, but I can feel my brain engaging less with the problem than I'm used to. It can form a barrier to real understanding, and keeps me out of my flow. I recently worked on something very complex I don't think I would have been able to tackle as quickly without AI; a hierarchical graph layout algorithm based on the Sugiyama framework, using…

My "actual job" isn't to write code, but to solve problems.

Writing code has just typically been how I've needed to solve those problems.

That has increasingly shifted to "just" reviewing code and focusing on the architecture and domain models.

I get to spend more time on my actual job.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#168

Post by lr4444lr »

sdoering wrote: post #111

This reminds me of the recurring pattern with every new medium: Socrates worried writing would destroy memory, Gutenberg's critics feared for contemplation, novels were "brain softening," TV was the "idiot box." That said, I'm not sure "they've always been wrong before" proves they're wrong now. Where I'm skeptical of this study: - 54 participants, only 18 in the critical 4th session - 4 months is barely enough time…

Were any of the prior fears totally wrong?

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#169

Post by duskdozer »

Madmallard wrote: post #119
mannanj wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noting that it is straw man to connect my argument with vaccine skepticism. The mass psychosis was that early on in the COVID response, we were hearing so much early advice from people that were ahead of CDC/FDA, things like: - Masks work (CDC/FDA discouraged, then flip-flopped and took credit for these things) despite it originating from Scott Alexander and skeptic communities like his, I also heard it from Tim Ferr…

Thought I recall Vinay Prasad saying (back in 2020 or 2021) that masks don't really work well enough for us to force all kids to wear them. Like chance passing encounters they have some effectiveness, but an imperfectly used non-n95 mask is basically worthless. But the latter scenario is what nearly everyone was doing.

>Vinay Prasad

frequent touter of other right-wing ideas surround the pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinay_Prasad#COVID_response

>but an imperfectly used non-n95 mask is basically worthless.

also not true. Even surgical or cloth masks on bearded individuals provide 30-40% aerosol filtration https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8130778/

The myth that laypeople couldn't effectively use masks was just turning the topic into an all-or-nothing binary, knowing people would be discouraged.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#170

Post by otikik »

softwaredoug wrote: post #32

Druids used to decry that literacy caused people to lose their ability to memorize sacred teachings. And they’re right! But literacy still happened and we’re all either dumber or smarter for it.

The ability is still there. My son dutifully memorizes all the lyrics of his favorite band’s songs.

What the druids/piests were really decrying was that people spent less time and attention on them. Religion was the first attention economy.

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