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High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

bbc.com

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Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#161

Post by elnatro »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #129
elnatro wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am nos asking anything. You can think what you want. What the data that we have right now tells us is: new train built in 2022, checked 4 days ago[1], and issues on that part of the railway track for months[2]. [1]: https://elpais.com/espana/2026-01-19/el-fabricante-hitachi-r... [2]: https://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/20260119/adif-notifico-...

Were you so quick to blame the government in the Alvia accident in Santiago? Just wait for the investigation.

The machinists were warning about issues in the curve of Angrois for a long time.

Why are you so quick on disregarding their opinion?

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#162

Post by alt227 »

thecopy wrote: post #111

As a reference, ~1500-2000 people die every year due to cars in Spain.

How many cars are on the road in spain compared to how many trains are on the rail network?

I would like to see an apples to apples comparison of deaths per mile travelled on the road and rail networks.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#163

Post by dust42 »

rr2841 wrote: post #141

What we know so far: 1. The last 3 cars from the Iryo train (Frecciarossa 1000) derailed for unknown reasons. It's a straight line, so this is extremely rare. 2. The Renfe train (Alvia) didn't have time to break and hit the derailed trains from Iryo, the two first cars derail as a consequence of the impact. 3. The Iryo train(Frecciarossa 1000), that caused the accident, was manufactured in 2022 and it passed a techni…

There are reports from passengers that the train rattled before the accident. So my guess is a broken wheel rim and subsequently the train derailed at the track switch then also damaging the opposite track. Accident location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cek9DgChguXJxVpd6 The italian is about 400m north at the technical building with the two antennas.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#164

Post by pestatije »

oersted wrote: post #151
diegocg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreign operators are mandated by the EU, they can't be banned. Spain has been one of the first countries to allow foreign high speed operators (unlike other European countries that did attempt to delay their entrance as much as possible

I have observed that it is a recurring pattern. I am most aware of the behind the scenes in public education, but I believe it is across the board. Massive efforts are done to implement reforms to conform to EU standards, believing that that’s how the “superior” EU members do it (Germany, NL, Nordics…). But then I go there and I see that their system has nothing to do with the standards and they are not doing much to…

exactly...39 dead and we should feel more confident, that's how shitty we are

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#165

Post by wongarsu »

oersted wrote: post #151
diegocg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreign operators are mandated by the EU, they can't be banned. Spain has been one of the first countries to allow foreign high speed operators (unlike other European countries that did attempt to delay their entrance as much as possible

I have observed that it is a recurring pattern. I am most aware of the behind the scenes in public education, but I believe it is across the board. Massive efforts are done to implement reforms to conform to EU standards, believing that that’s how the “superior” EU members do it (Germany, NL, Nordics…). But then I go there and I see that their system has nothing to do with the standards and they are not doing much to…

It's a common pattern far beyond the EU. One big driving force is that if you have an existing solution that achieves 80% you have much less incentive to change than if your current state only achieves 50%. So the "inferior" country modernizes to the new 100% solution while the "superior" one might stay on the 80% solution for far longer

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#166

Post by wongarsu »

pestatije wrote: post #164
oersted wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have observed that it is a recurring pattern. I am most aware of the behind the scenes in public education, but I believe it is across the board. Massive efforts are done to implement reforms to conform to EU standards, believing that that’s how the “superior” EU members do it (Germany, NL, Nordics…). But then I go there and I see that their system has nothing to do with the standards and they are not doing much to…

exactly...39 dead and we should feel more confident, that's how shitty we are

Compared to road deaths that's practically nothing. Obviously 39 dead are 39 too many, and in terms of railway disasters it's a lot, but in the bigger picture it's a blip

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#167

Post by andy12_ »

The most important context is this image[1] from the Guardia Civil. Using Google Maps, and using as context the tree, post and yellow connection box in the image, we can place its location at 180m before the accident in the tracks of the Iryo train. The image appears to show a track welding failure. This would match the reports of some passengers[2] that reported that the "train started shaking violently" before the accident.

Photo at 38.00771000519087, -4.565435982666953

Accident at 38.009292813090475, -4.564960554581273

[1] https://img2.rtve.es/im/16899875/?w=900

[2] https://x.com/eleanorinthesky/status/2012961856520917401?s=2...

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#168

Post by wolvoleo »

elnatro wrote: post #63
jonp888 wrote: post #48

For many years the Spanish state-owned company RENFE had a monopoly on Spain's huge high speed rail network. However their high prices, inconvenient schedules and poor customer service were often criticized, and so when, to the annoyance of RENFE and many spanish politicians, additional foreign operators entered the market on the key Madrid - Barcelona route, ridership doubled whilst ticket prices halved. So I would…

Unless there is evidence that the accident was caused by the Iryo train, I wouldn’t be so fast to blame the private companies on a decaying infrastructure. There are plenty of cases of lack of maintenance in the railway network.

But like the OP says this particular infrastructure area was brand new.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#169

Post by mlrtime »

embedding-shape wrote: post #153
mlrtime wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew this would come up so specifically searched for the comment. And I knew the death rate for cars would be >>>> than trains. HOWEVER, there is something unique scary about a single incident that kills more people that fit in a typical car. Combined with the fact that you have 0 control over it is much more frightening (for lack of a better word) than car static deaths. Just my opnion, may not be rational but I'd…

> but I'd still rather be behind the wheel Maybe if it's a trip I do once in a while. But going from Málaga to Madrid and back once a week, in a car, driving? Or Barcelona Madrid once a week? No, hard pass, I'd rather be driven by someone else, in a comfy carriage, where I can comfortably sleep or do other things in the meantime. Me and thousands of others agree, otherwise we wouldn't have one of the most expansive t…

True, I don't drive or take public transportation for a commute so I wasn't thinking of that scenario. I wasn't thinking of a scenario where I HAD to do it frequently.

Re: High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 39

#170

Post by embedding-shape »

mlrtime wrote: post #169
embedding-shape wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I'd still rather be behind the wheel Maybe if it's a trip I do once in a while. But going from Málaga to Madrid and back once a week, in a car, driving? Or Barcelona Madrid once a week? No, hard pass, I'd rather be driven by someone else, in a comfy carriage, where I can comfortably sleep or do other things in the meantime. Me and thousands of others agree, otherwise we wouldn't have one of the most expansive t…

True, I don't drive or take public transportation for a commute so I wasn't thinking of that scenario. I wasn't thinking of a scenario where I HAD to do it frequently.

Afaik, that's how lots (most?) of the train network is used here, cheap commuting to/from work on the weekdays, and to/from birthplace/family-town/city/closest metropolitan area on the weekends/holidays. Probably true for most places with extensive train networks, come to think of it.
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