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OLED, Not for Me

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Re: OLED, Not for Me

#161

Post by ssl-3 »

balou23 wrote: post #130
ksec wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Friend on a 30Hz Phone Screen because of battery saving mode said the difference between 30Hz and 60Hz is so minor, that in "In practice, it's been unnoticeable." At one point in time 95%+ of HN comments were cheering on about Atom the text editor and later VSCode as being fast enough or unnoticeable. When Sublime user are baffled as to why. And Sublime isn't the fastest text editor either before Zed came out. Yes…

At some point there were LCD monitors that had very noticeable to me chequerboard pattern - like with analogue TV, only half of the screen got lit up/refreshed, but with an alternating pattern rather than scan lines. After asking the owner of said screen how he could stand that... "stand what?" Yep, I guess most people are not that picky.

I had a (regrettable) 19" 4x3 ViewSonic display that made that problem obvious -- way back in 2008 or so.

My homework at that time revealed a couple of things:

1. Liquid crystals are individually driven by AC waveforms, not DC as one might assume. This is the nature of the beast. The frequency at which the signal alternates is not necessarily very high. Thus, sometimes, this alternating nature is visible.

2. Some displays use dithering. A given display might support just -- say -- 6 bits per subpixel. To get the full 8 or 10 or whatever number of bits that are expected as a final output, the in-between steps are approximated by switching between two values -- sometimes (again) at a fairly low frequency that is visible.

...

But anyway, that ViewSonic monitor: Most people thought it looked fine, but it drove me nuts.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#162

Post by Melonai »

quitit wrote: post #145

If your job involves detailed text review (such as coding) then splash out on a display with a pixel density of at least 250 PPI. The screen shown in this blog looks like it's ~140 PPI. Sure these screens are cheap, but they're best used for moving graphical content. In the demonstration image the text is just 9 pixels tall, while thatis legible, it is unacceptable for long term reading and is completely reliant on s…

Wait, I do my work on a 4K display, according to a calculator I have a PPI of 150, but I already find my 4K display completely overkill!

Now, I spent an amount of my work life staring at a company-issued 27 inch 1080p display, and that was absolutely horrible, but with 4K, I'm not sure if I would even be able to see the improvement if I went to 6K or 8K even, which I always thought was mostly useless outside of gigantic television sets. Is it really worth it? Can you really genuinely see the text blurring on a 4K monitor?

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#163

Post by PunchyHamster »

girvo wrote: post #110
kllrnohj wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RGB strip isn't really better, it's just what cleartype happens to understand. A lot of these OLED developments came from either TV or mobile, neither of which had legacy subpixel hinting to deal with. So the subpixel layouts were optimized for both manufacturing but also human perception. Humans do not perceive all colors equally, we are much more sensitive to green than blue for example. Since OLED is emissive, it…

The article shows mac, it's not just ClearType... PenTile for example (as another commenter pointed out) was woeful with text, and made things look fuzzy. I'm not a fan of ClearType, but even on Linux OLED text rendering just isn't as good in my experience (at normal desktop monitor DPI) Perhaps its down to the algorithms most OSes use instead of just ClearType, but why hasn't it been solved by this point even outsid…

I dunno, my phone's oled (oneplus 5T) looks perfectly fine even with small fonts...

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#164

Post by gattr »

ValdikSS wrote: post #72
wolvoleo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this. I don't use screens below 200dpi anymore (right now I have 4K on 24", at 200% scaling) and many people say that it's a waste because it's way too high. But I can still see pixels that are off. I just love sharp text. Which everyone is used to on their phones, I don't understand why people don't want the same on their computer which they probably use a lot more hours per day (I sure do) I'm sure I would noti…

>right now I have 4K on 24", at 200% scaling I have Dell P2415Q, from 2015. There are, like, 4 other (legacy) models of 24" 4K out there, and that's it. I've no idea why they don't manufacture them.

I have the same Dell (since 2016) and love it. But eventually I transitioned last year to a 27" 4K monitor. Still almost as sharp (KDE at 175% works fine for me).

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#165

Post by rickydontrun »

nasmorn wrote: post #105
rabf wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people ask what computer they should buy I always tell them to get any old office computer from ebay and use the rest of the money to buy a really nice monitor, and a really nice keyboard and mouse, as these are the bits you use! For most tasks that are undertaken on a computer any processor from the last 10 years coupled with 16GB of ram is more than sufficient.

If you buy a really nice monitor, which for me starts at 6K 32” - the eBay computer will no longer drive it. What I find insane is how long companies issued 19” 1080 screens to their employees. I don’t think that was a well calculated choice given that a couple of hundred more over 5 years would have surely improved productivity by a little bit for their 50k year employees. It felt almost done out of spite to keep pe…

> which for me starts at 6K 32”

that's a weird start. for me the start is 4k with proper blacks & proper color calibration

> given that a couple of hundred more over 5 years would have surely improved productivity by a little bit

no company wants the bulk of it's people to improve their productivity by even a little bit. you should be productive enough, that's it.

> It felt almost done out of spite to keep people in their place

otherwise amazon and the likes would have competitors in every country. but I don't think it's out of spite.

it's the 'established' interpersonal culture between employers and employees, like in packs without natural alphas: if one beta-beta steals the show of the beta-alpha a few times too many, he's a goner. in packs with alphas the performer gets commended and a chance to compete for the top because you want your team to be lead by the currently best. hasn't been the case in our species for a long while now.

companies don't treat their employees bad out of spite, it's so they can stick to low, moderate(d) standards and cultures, ... and have an easy work life

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#166

Post by QuiEgo »

If the author is sensitive to this level of detail, they should just get a color calibrated high-DPI screen (like an Apple Studio Display) and call it a day.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#167

Post by Voultapher »

wolvoleo wrote: post #54
ksec wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Friend on a 30Hz Phone Screen because of battery saving mode said the difference between 30Hz and 60Hz is so minor, that in "In practice, it's been unnoticeable." At one point in time 95%+ of HN comments were cheering on about Atom the text editor and later VSCode as being fast enough or unnoticeable. When Sublime user are baffled as to why. And Sublime isn't the fastest text editor either before Zed came out. Yes…

Yes this. I don't use screens below 200dpi anymore (right now I have 4K on 24", at 200% scaling) and many people say that it's a waste because it's way too high. But I can still see pixels that are off. I just love sharp text. Which everyone is used to on their phones, I don't understand why people don't want the same on their computer which they probably use a lot more hours per day (I sure do) I'm sure I would noti…

4K on 24" equates to ~184ppi, not sure how you concluded > 200.

Source https://www.sven.de/dpi/

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#168

Post by cogman10 »

aappleby wrote: post #18

This guy is complaining about fringing...on 9- and 10-pixel high fonts. That works out to 1.6mm or 1.8mm high characters on a 140 dpi screen, or about 1/16 of an inch. He's also got Cleartype on and set to RGB stripe even though the OLED is not RGB stripe (though to be fair, Windows doesn't really make it clear what each page of the ClearType tuner does). But yeah, if you use a _tiny_ font and sit _really_ close to t…

One of the benefits of having somewhat terrible eyesight :). I can see the fine details if I squint and get closer, but for me everything fringes because that's just what astigmatism or a smudge on my glasses does.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#169

Post by scherlock »

nasmorn wrote: post #105
rabf wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people ask what computer they should buy I always tell them to get any old office computer from ebay and use the rest of the money to buy a really nice monitor, and a really nice keyboard and mouse, as these are the bits you use! For most tasks that are undertaken on a computer any processor from the last 10 years coupled with 16GB of ram is more than sufficient.

If you buy a really nice monitor, which for me starts at 6K 32” - the eBay computer will no longer drive it. What I find insane is how long companies issued 19” 1080 screens to their employees. I don’t think that was a well calculated choice given that a couple of hundred more over 5 years would have surely improved productivity by a little bit for their 50k year employees. It felt almost done out of spite to keep pe…

Many employees are doing text work and, until recently, operating systems and apps did a really bad job of working with Hi DPI displays. Your best bet was to target around 115 DPI on a monitor for decent text rendering without having to deal with font scaling. 19" 1080p is perfect for that. You just gave them multiple monitors if you wanted more real estate.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#170

Post by SomeHacker44 »

c0nsumer wrote: post #155
cube2222 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a w-oled monitor for office work and gaming, very happy with my oled tv. I returned it after a couple days. I got unbearable eye strain from it, even though I use rather large fonts, and the ppd was the same as with my previous IPS. Yes, the “more fuzzy” text was very much noticeable too. Maybe it varies by person, maybe it’s influenced by things like astigmatism, but I totally see where the author is coming…

(Author here.) I do have astigmatism. You do make me wonder if this plays a part as well...

I do too. Combined with progressive lenses and I have significant chromatic aberration issues. Blue and red pixels require different focus, which is sometimes an issue when solid blues and reds are on screen in close proximity. I turn off pure blue colors in my terminal emulator, for example.
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