Earlier quoted context omitted.
It absolutely does
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> Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.
ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people
161–170 of 213 posts
Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'll spend way more tax money to haul them across the border than you would to just print them a permit to live and work in the community they've been contributing to for years. Every study ever conducted on the issue has concluded that undocumented immigrants contribute far more to the economy than they consume in public welfare dollars. You've let the actual tax dollar parasites pawn the blame on a scapegoat beca…
> You'll spend way more tax money to haul them across the border than you would to just print them a permit to live and work in the community they've been contributing to for years At the expense of legal immigrants who bothered to do it the right way. Law enforcement isn't free, unfortunately. > Every study ever conducted on the issue has concluded that undocumented immigrants contribute far more to the economy than…
> Do these "studies" account for second-order effects on housing, local job markets, etc.?
Yes everything improves. Displaced workers find new jobs, markets and economies expand, etc. etc.
> At the expense of legal immigrants who bothered to do it the right way.
This is just nonsense, immigration isn't a zero-sum game.
> Some of these studies exist for legal immigrants, cite the one making this case for illegals?
Google it, I'm at work
edit: had a lull, here you go https://www.epi.org/publication/unauthorized-immigrants/
The money quote:
> If we examine just the net fiscal impact of unauthorized immigrants, even this is positive, despite the fact that lacking work authorization also means being trapped in low-wage work and being unable to adequately assert one’s labor and employment rights. A prime reason the net contribution is, nonetheless, positive is that many unauthorized immigrants pay income taxes and have Social Security taxes withheld yet are generally ineligible for government benefits and services.
Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do we need to give free stuff to every person that wades across the southern border? What is our legal or moral obligation to eviscerate our already-limited social safety net for outsiders who, by and large, do not contribute to them? You are free to die on the cross and spend your income this way, but how is it "humane" to use violence (taxes) to reappropriate the fruits of my labor for your special interests?
Bc these immigrants as a whole contribute more to the federal state and local tax base than they take out, it’s super simple. I guess you don’t like the economy.
Another artful legal vs. illegal conflation - citation needed. I have no doubt in my mind folks coming in on H-1B and O-1 visas contribute more than they take out: nobody is disputing that.
When an illegal immigrant making $2/hr under the table cuts his hand off at a meat packing plant, who pays the hospital bill? How many tax dollars does this one incident wipe out?
Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not wanting to fund criminal enterprises using the tax dollars of hard-working Americans? Please stick to the point and tell us - if this is your concern then why are you cheering on the large-scale openly criminal enterprise ? The total criminality and total cost of illegal (illegible!) immigrants is dwarfed by the current regime trashing our Constitution, trashing our economy, ballooning the debt, and trashing ou…
Yawn. My concern goes far beyond monetary cost, given that political districts count illegal immigrants for purposes of representation (census) and that birthright citizenship exists. By encouraging illegal immigration ("sanctuary cities"), you can "buy" depressed wages for the portion of society in need of the most help, House seats, electoral votes, and voters at the expense of the nation's citizenry at large.
You were narrowly driving focus on "tax dollars". I was referencing costs beyond the monetary - the corrosive effect on what had remained of the rule of law, and consequently on individual liberty. The fish rots from the head - you can't throw away these things while imagining such actions are necessary to save them.
> political districts count illegal immigrants for purposes of representation (census)
> you can "buy" depressed wages for portion of society in need of the most help, House seats, electoral votes
Your first sentence implies that the problem is representation of such areas going up. Your second sentence implies that the problem is representation of such areas is going down. Which is it? Because really, it feels like this is the minimally-defensible remnant of the nonsense trope that illegible immigrants are voting - essentially handwaving implying "bad people" are responsible for creating our bad outcomes, rather than the reality that our political candidates are a race to the bottom and that our government has become wholly bought by corporate interests (open season under Trump). Reassigning a few House seats is rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic - we're going to be paying for this Trumpist tantrum for decades, assuming we can even right the ship afterwards.
(also I will note that you have tacitly agreed that the current regime is a massive criminal enterprise stealing our "tax dollars" and accumulated national wealth)
Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> we don't owe foreigners anything This isn't true, it's a pillar of the USA to harbor refugees and welcome immigrants. It's our entire history. It's our entire identity. > Proportionately far fewer, obviously I dont think so. There's a lot of people in this country, far more citizens than illegal immigrants. > Not wanting to finance unskilled lawbreakers capital punishment for every crime if you dont have a degree?…
> This isn't true, it's a pillar of the USA to harbor refugees and welcome immigrants. It's our entire history. It's our entire identity. All of these dreamy tales are from before the New Deal for a reason. > I dont think so. There's a lot of people in this country, far more citizens than illegal immigrants. The word "proportionately" means something: if you believe that the same percentage of illegal immigrants pay…
My point was "your people" are financing unskilled lawbreakers with or without immigrants. Also "your people" are immigrants.
Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
A popular technique is to conflate illegal immigrants with legal ones for the benefit of argument. Removals of those with legal status should be corrected! I can simultaneously agree with you on this point and believe that all illegal immigrants should be removed! - this is actually the most fair and just solution to those who bothered to wait in line and follow the proper procedures!
> A popular technique is to conflate illegal immigrants with legal ones for the benefit of argument. Yes, I'm not. The Administration is. Removing people is cruel. I doubt most deserve it, in fact I know most don't. Deport the actual criminals, sure. That's not what is happening today. Ideally there is no "line." Proper procedures should be easy. If people are crossing the rivers and crawling through razor wire to ge…
> If people are crossing the rivers and crawling through razor wire to get here then the policies make it too hard to enter the country
This is an opinion.
> not a criminal offense, btw
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325
You were saying?
> Fine them
The law also says "jail them" - let's just deport them and save the cash.
Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A popular technique is to conflate illegal immigrants with legal ones for the benefit of argument. Yes, I'm not. The Administration is. Removing people is cruel. I doubt most deserve it, in fact I know most don't. Deport the actual criminals, sure. That's not what is happening today. Ideally there is no "line." Proper procedures should be easy. If people are crossing the rivers and crawling through razor wire to ge…
> If people are crossing the rivers and crawling through razor wire to get here then the policies make it too hard to enter the country This is an opinion. > not a criminal offense, btw https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 You were saying? > Fine them The law also says "jail them" - let's just deport them and save the cash.
> Civil Penalty
Traffic ticket makes you a criminal? Deport you for speeding?
> The law also says "jail them" - let's just deport them
How about we follow the law. You're the one that cared so much about lawbreakers. Stop being cruel.
Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This isn't true, it's a pillar of the USA to harbor refugees and welcome immigrants. It's our entire history. It's our entire identity. All of these dreamy tales are from before the New Deal for a reason. > I dont think so. There's a lot of people in this country, far more citizens than illegal immigrants. The word "proportionately" means something: if you believe that the same percentage of illegal immigrants pay…
My point was "your people" are financing unskilled lawbreakers with or without immigrants. Also "your people" are immigrants.
> financing unskilled lawbreakers with or without immigrants
So why invite more?
> Also "your people" are immigrants
Stop conflating legal and illegal immigrants: this strategy doesn't work as well in writing.
Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If people are crossing the rivers and crawling through razor wire to get here then the policies make it too hard to enter the country This is an opinion. > not a criminal offense, btw https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 You were saying? > Fine them The law also says "jail them" - let's just deport them and save the cash.
> Civil Penalty Traffic ticket makes you a criminal? Deport you for speeding? > The law also says "jail them" - let's just deport them How about we follow the law. You're the one that cared so much about lawbreakers. Stop being cruel.
> Traffic ticket
Maybe read or ask an LLM to summarize part (a) for you? Civil penalties are in addition to the criminal ones - reading can be tough, I know.
Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think ad hominems are fine when the lunatic in question mail bombs and injures/murders innocent people. Like what the eff are you talking about!?
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There was no justification for mailing pipe bombs to kill and maim people. That's batshit crazy and has no place in society.