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I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

blog.matthewbrunelle.com

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Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#161

Post by rowanG077 »

testing22321 wrote: post #157
astra1701 wrote: post #49

The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I managed to damage my FW13's keyboard such that it was no longer usable, I could just... go straight to Framework's website and buy a new one for $40. And, I even had the option of a slightly improved one, that shed the Windows key and lacked the god-awful copilo…

I’ve always found this line of thinking to match up with drivers of old Land Rovers. The thinking goes they are brilliant because they are so easy to repair and parts are easy to source globally. While that’s true, I much prefer to drive vehicles that don’t need repairs.

The problem is of course that no vehicles/devices as of now exist that are indestructible

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#162

Post by fullstop »

dinosaurdynasty wrote: post #153
fullstop wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hoping that this is how it would work for System76 -- when I bought the laptop they sold replacement batteries. Five years later I find myself needing a battery and they are unavailable -- not on System76's website, not online, nowhere. My only option is to either replace the laptop or buy a used one and take the battery from that, hoping that it's good. For the last six months I've just been using a laptop as…

https://system76.com/search.php?search_query=battery If I search for battery stuff shows up, but they only ship bare batteries to the 48 states and Canada. Contacting support should be able to help you too.

Right, I went down that route as well:

> The hardware supplier that we use no longer has the battery. Therefore, we cannot sell you the battery. What we can do is provide you with the part numbers so you can source it elsewhere. If you're considering sourcing the battery for the Darter Pro 5 from another supplier, please note that the model number for the battery is N150BAT-4, and the original part number is 6-87-N15ZS-51E01. Third-party battery sellers may display one or both of these numbers and might also list other compatible part numbers that are suitable for the same model.

It's actually a Darter Pro 6, but the battery part number is correct in that text.

You can not purchase this battery, it no longer exists. There are a few sketchy websites which say that they sell it, but they will cancel your order a few days after placing it and tell you that there is "lack of material".

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#163

Post by Zak »

f1shy wrote: post #100
fullstop wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hoping that this is how it would work for System76 -- when I bought the laptop they sold replacement batteries. Five years later I find myself needing a battery and they are unavailable -- not on System76's website, not online, nowhere. My only option is to either replace the laptop or buy a used one and take the battery from that, hoping that it's good. For the last six months I've just been using a laptop as…

I use laptops since the 90‘. I only ever wanted to get a new battery. Everthing else never had anybsignificant problem, or started to have problems when the machine was already obsolete (5 to 10 years). While I like the Frameworks, I personally don’t see lots of advantages in terms of reparability, ovly eventually in making one with exactly what I need and no more. But then they are a little pricey.

I've also had laptops since the 90s, but my experience is the opposite. I've upgraded something in most of them. Almost all of them got RAM and storage upgrades. One got a mostly-compatible motherboard upgrade that required grinding down a couple bits on the frame to make it fit, and I got to have a 4:3 IPS display for a bit longer.

I love the idea of the Framework. I don't love the lack of a trackpoint, or the pricing. I'm willing to forgive the latter since it's a small company with a mission I appreciate. There's likely a Framework 16 in my future eventually.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#164

Post by coldpie »

nfriedly wrote: post #114
gsa wrote: post #41

I have been looking to buy a new laptop personally. Framework has a compelling argument. But with only 4 ports on the Framework, I'd likely be switching the ports often. In addition to using USB-C, I often need a USB-A for an external mouse but other times a HDMI port to connect to a display while presenting. I don't think it's fair to compare Thinkpad X1 Carbon with Framework. The T14 range is a much better comparis…

My FW13 has two USB-C ports so I can charge from either side and have one free while it's charging, and then USB-A on one side and MicroSD on the other. That covers all of my frequent needs. (My main monitor has usb-c input, and I have a couple of inexpensive adapters/hubs for HDMI, DP, Ethernet, etc. - all of which are used infrequently.) I was a little concerned before buying it, and four is probably the minimum nu…

I don't know anything at all about hardware engineering, but I am surprised they couldn't stuff 2 USB-C ports into one of those modules.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#165

Post by tempsaasexample »

testing22321 wrote: post #157
astra1701 wrote: post #49

The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I managed to damage my FW13's keyboard such that it was no longer usable, I could just... go straight to Framework's website and buy a new one for $40. And, I even had the option of a slightly improved one, that shed the Windows key and lacked the god-awful copilo…

I’ve always found this line of thinking to match up with drivers of old Land Rovers. The thinking goes they are brilliant because they are so easy to repair and parts are easy to source globally. While that’s true, I much prefer to drive vehicles that don’t need repairs.

True technically, but there's many people that almost enjoy working on their cars IF they are pleasant to work on. And some are. At that point the car is just an avenue for your hobby of working on cars.

My parents have a Lexus RX400H (hybrid), that even for me as a car guy is a nightmare to work on. It's technically never had a fault since 2007 with 215k miles. But changing the spark plugs was probably the third hardest thing I've done with cars, only behind dropping a transmission and doing a head gasket job on other cars.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#166

Post by linsomniac »

vermon wrote: post #113
Esophagus4 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly - imagine if early MacBook Butterfly keyboard users had the option to simply upgrade their keyboard to a fixed version for $40... [1] https://www.keyboardsettlement.com/

One of the white Macbooks used 50 screws to fasten the keyboard. Once I spilled some juice on it and had to replace it. Took forever, but at least back then it was not too expensive or difficult.

Could have been worse: I replaced a keyboard for a friends daughter and her Dell had ~50 plastic studs holding the keyboard in place, each one was melted rivet-style. I had to remove enough that I could get the keyboard out, but not so much that there wasn't still plastic to melt to hold the new keyboard in place.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#167

Post by eterm »

dontlaugh wrote: post #134
encom wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This curse extends to mechanical keyboards as well. There exists all sorts of fancy, beautiful and odd keycap sets... for Americans. Some times for German and French. If I get really lucky, I'll find some with a "Nordic" layout, which is an abomination that combines dk/se/no.

The solution is to get blank keycaps. Then it doesn’t matter.

It does matter, because the phyiscal keys themselves are literally in different places.

Comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1DL1fO6Zs

Note that weird abomination of a backslash key around the enter key on the US keyboard.

There's no way to just map the US keyboard to the UK one.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#168

Post by simpaticoder »

nrp wrote: post #123
rwbt wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The permanent fix involves soldering stuff on the mainboard, which I don't have any prior experience. The RTC substitute module you mention is just the ML220 coin battery that will also eventually stop working.

The RTC substitute module is the permanent fix, which does require soldering one wire to a point on the Mainboard.

I did this repair and it was not nearly as easy as you imply. The wire is extremely thin, and the pad on the motherboard is extremely small. I had to purchase special eye-wear in order to see what I was doing, in addition to a soldering iron.

It was and is totally wrong that Framework requires users to repair a component that was faulty from the factory. You should ship the laptops back to your facility and repair them, at your expense. At worst, offer a substantial discount on a motherboard replacement.

This experience is a big reason why I went from a strong Framework proponent to a strong detractor. You do not support your products, and users cannot trust you to do the right thing. You now bask in the idealistic haze of nerddom but your actions show that you're just a business for whom repairability is a sales strategy to justify premium prices.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#169

Post by xorcist »

6510 wrote: post #129
f1shy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use laptops since the 90‘. I only ever wanted to get a new battery. Everthing else never had anybsignificant problem, or started to have problems when the machine was already obsolete (5 to 10 years). While I like the Frameworks, I personally don’t see lots of advantages in terms of reparability, ovly eventually in making one with exactly what I need and no more. But then they are a little pricey.

Right, next time ill buy 1-3 extra batteries when buying a laptop.

How will you store them? In the freezer? It's not trivial to keep batteries in good condition.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#170

Post by konaraddi »

I think the author is the target customer for Framework. A customer looking for a ship of Theseus laptop that the seller stands by.

I’ve looked at framework as a potential next laptop but it’s expensive, some of parts are expensive, and the other parts I’m not sure I’ve ever had issues with in past laptops. I think I’m better off buying multiple used thinkpads over the course of my life, or even a used MBP (refurbished m4 MBP goes for ~$1.3K from Apple, base configuration w/ 16GB ram for framework 13 is ~1.2K), than a Framework; the thinkpads would be cheaper and more eco friendly with good build quality. I’m not looking for a ship of Theseus laptop, I’m just looking for something that works a long time, is good enough, and I want to keep my lifetime expenditure on hardware on the lower side. I look at my laptop cost as upfront cost divided by number of years I expect to use it for and I have a spreadsheet with past laptops (and phones) tracking historical usage and costs to better inform my next purchase. Framework looks attractive but the costs don’t seem to align with my goal.

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