161–170 of 197 posts
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And has no ecosystem compared to Python. Speed isn’t why people choose Python.
There's a Ruby gem for almost anything
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Because Ruby is just a better thought out language than Python is. It had a sane package management story 15 years before Python. It doesn't rely on weird hacks like exception throwing for iterator control flow. It doesn't have nearly as many warts and footguns on basic operations (for example, in Python csv.writer(file).writerows(rows) is broken unless you remembered to set the newline mode on the file; in Ruby file…
Everything being mutable by default, including strings, is about as big a foot gun as you can find in a high level language.
Immutable strings is a more popular programming language feature and Ruby has a mechanism for opting into that. It’s so commonplace that the complaint usually isn’t that a string can be modified, but rather that every source file includes a magic comment to prevent that. Besides data safety, the VM can optimize frozen strings, so popular linters will flip that setting on for you. String mutability isn’t a practical issue for modern codebases. And, as language design goes, it’s kinda nice not needing to use a parallel set of classes for mutable and immutable string data IMHO.
With that said, the magic comment is a wart and folks are looking at making immutable strings the default. But, there’s a strong desire to avoid breaking the world. The Ruby Core team is keen to keep the lessons learned from the Python 2 -> 3 migration in mind.
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I work in a large Sorbet codebase (though it isn't a Rails one) and it's a huge boon IMO. The number of tests we don't need to write because of Sorbet is really nice. It does occasionally require structuring your code differently, but I find the type-system-encouraged approach often gives a more elegant and harder-to-misuse interface in the end.
Very curious to hear about the specific cases where types make tests unnecessary. I spend my working life swapping between Ruby and typescript projects and the typescript project is utter garbage with poor test coverage that needs a day of human QA for every build whereas the Ruby project is well tested such that we know that CI passing means it’s good to be released.
(I also work in a 40m+ loc non-rails ruby codebase that is almost entirely typed with Sorbet.)
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As long as Matz is firmly against, inline typing should never be a part of Ruby. I started working on a large Rails codebase that adopted Sorbet and it is nothing but an impediment to progress.
> adopted Sorbet and it is nothing but an impediment to progress How so? I never really missed types in Ruby, even if I like them a lot in typescript, but right now I'm doing some "vibe coding" on a personal project and I was thinking about trying Sorbet. I think that it could help Claude Code avoid some mistakes it often makes which make it waste a lot of time fixing.
Happy bday ruby! For the usual doomsdaysayers saying "ruby can't X so I left it for Y", when X is typing, RBS is becoming the accepted standard (now that sorbet supports it),and RBS inline notation next to signature/code too (for peeps complaining about separate files); when X is LSP, ruby-lsp is the standard and already supports "go to definition" (its major hole for a long time), and its plugin architecture allows…
It’s just inferior to Python, nobody is making a more complex argument than that. Why ever use Ruby when there’s a virtually identical system that’s faster with a bigger community.
There was a time in the history of Python when people who chose Python did so primarily because they found it beautiful or pleasant to work with. These are reasonable factors in choosing a language, and they continue to be popular reasons for choosing relatively unpopular languages today.
A related essay has made the rounds on HN before. It might be worth revisiting if this question is on your mind: https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/10/26/python-is-a-volunt...
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Sorbet is backed by Stripe. Why is it important to be a separate layer that compiles to plain untyped Ruby?
So that it doesn’t have to go through the Ruby development process. Matz doesn’t want it, and even if he did it would take years just to get people to agree on a syntax, much less actually get it implemented and rolled out. Same reason Typescript was made and we didn’t add types to JavaScript.
And RBS is officially part of Ruby…
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None of what you say about Python is true. It’s not even plausible. The Python language hasn’t even had any significant syntax changes for four versions now; versions 3.11-3.14 are basically all internals optimizations. Why would you write something so clearly false?
Both are true. Different camps meant that any significant change to the language was scrutinised loudly. If my memory doesn't fail me, the last significant changes from the time Guido was still in charge, and he mostly abandoned the BDFL because of backlash. Since then python has been on a constant "analysis paralysis" state, with only efforts about performance pushing through (no one complains about a faster horse).
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So that it doesn’t have to go through the Ruby development process. Matz doesn’t want it, and even if he did it would take years just to get people to agree on a syntax, much less actually get it implemented and rolled out. Same reason Typescript was made and we didn’t add types to JavaScript.
Is Sorbet not what you’re describing? And RBS is officially part of Ruby…
Type annotations in the language as syntax. Static type checker with an emphasis on inference. Compiles into Ruby so that it integrates with the entire existing Ruby ecosystem, so unlike Crystal as well.
Those are the general features you need/want and why TS caught on and none of the existing solutions hit the mark.
I haven't looked at Ruby for a long time. I've moved away due to the lack of typing. Any degree of typing would be helpful. Does it support typing yet?
Of course RBS makes this more explicit/verbose (in a good way), and ruby-lsp helps bring it all together in the editor.
I feel like I'm missing nothing compared to Python with type hints and pyright. Of course neither compare to an actually typed language at runtime, but at least as far as developer experience, it's pretty alright. I'm relatively new to Ruby but I went from really hating it to being pretty much fine with it for these reasons.