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Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

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Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#161

Post by mrguyorama »

ramblerman wrote: post #33
Waterluvian wrote: post #31

Some days I just can’t get over how we’re just the dumbest ##^*ing species to ever visit space. Oh let’s look at what the humans are up to with their climate change problem. Oh wow they’ve got giant data centers at work on the problem. I guess maybe it’s worth the extra heat. Let’s see what they’re calculati— nope they’re just collecting and trading numbers.

> Some days I just can’t get over how we’re just the dumbest ##^*ing species to ever visit space I also think we are pretty dumb. But what reference point makes you think we are either smarter or dumber than other spacefaring species

Any species able to visit us would be definitionally smarter than us, since they somehow break the rules of physics as we know them, so they either have way better math and data, or are magic, which frankly I would treat as "smarter"

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#162

Post by thegrim000 »

oasisaimlessly wrote: post #79
thegrim000 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it as the inefficient part isn't the compute efficiency, the inefficient part is dumping all the resulting heat into the environment without capturing it and using it in some way to generate electricity or do work. On a related/side note, when there's talk about seti and dyson spheres, and detecting them via infrared waste heat, I also don't understand that. Such an alien civilization is seemingly capable of b…

All energy inevitably changes into heat eventually, and in the steady state, power in = power out. There is no way to get rid of heat. It has to go somewhere; otherwise, the temperature of the system will increase without bound.

For example, why couldn't you use the waste heat like a power plant? Use it to boil water, to turn turbines, to generate electricity, which gets sent and consumed elsewhere? Adding to the heat wherever the electricity is finally consumed. (Ignoring various losses along the way).

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#163

Post by danny_codes »

t0bia_s wrote: post #156

Technically any kind of datacenters, not just crypto, produces heat. Clouds, AI, banaking segment, etc.

Sure, but those applications may actually do something useful. Crypto mining is entirely useless, except as a way to facilitate black-market transactions.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#164

Post by danny_codes »

toenail wrote: post #88
rvba wrote: post #72

The government(s) could tax bitcoin mining servers with 1000% tax.

That would just make miners move somewhere with more favorable regulation and taxation, and nothing would change. Funny how taxes work

And then we wouldn’t be wasting time and energy on it. Someone else would be. Seems like a net win for us, since the entire industry produces zero value. This is like lamenting the departure of the industry of digging holes and filling them in again.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#165

Post by stouset »

thegrim000 wrote: post #162
oasisaimlessly wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All energy inevitably changes into heat eventually, and in the steady state, power in = power out. There is no way to get rid of heat. It has to go somewhere; otherwise, the temperature of the system will increase without bound.

For example, why couldn't you use the waste heat like a power plant? Use it to boil water, to turn turbines, to generate electricity, which gets sent and consumed elsewhere? Adding to the heat wherever the electricity is finally consumed. (Ignoring various losses along the way).

“Elsewhere” is still somewhere on the Dyson sphere.

Or if you magically beam 100% of the captured energy somewhere else, now that place gets to deal with shedding the heat from however many 1e26W+ of power were consumed. God help the poor planet you aim that ray of death at.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#166

Post by pests »

lostlogin wrote: post #158
pests wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I see okay yeah. Used to have one electric car but it was on a separate meter with unlimited charging for $40/mo (just looked, now its $46). Added a few hundred to the charger install originally. We really don't do too much around the house. Three people. One TV running maybe two sometimes. Two desktops (well one is laptop with a dock). A random PC as a server. Everything electric (oven, range, water heater, filtr…

The car isn’t heavily used but averages about 6-8kWh per day. With solar we are making a ton more power than we are using at the moment, it’s a sunny summer and we are managing to export something like 8x the power we are drawing from the grid.

How much solar do you have? Any battery? What rate does your power company give you?

I recently bought 30 600w panels that were used, apparently they used to be on a GM parking lot canopy but got uninstalled during covid lockdown and were in storage for ~4 years. I got a great price and I've tested ~30% and they are all in spec.

We pay ~$0.23 per kwh all in (supply, distribution, etc). Our provider (DTE) only pays ~$0.08 per kwh we supply, and its a credit and maxed out at our bill amount. So if we spend $200 on energy, we can only get $200 off. Which does mean free electricity, but also means no profit.

We use about ~1000kwh a month, our 30 panels can generate about ~3000kwh a month. Could deploy just 10 panels and resell or do better with batteries but the resell market does not make sense for me.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#167

Post by Supermancho »

ithkuil wrote: post #119
Supermancho wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the book Calculating God, a character notes that this is a common civilization-wide choice. Living in virtual reality, rather than trying to expand into the vast expanses of space, is a common trope as much as it's a logical choice. It neatly explains the Fermi Paradox. In some fiction, like The Matrix, the choice might be forced due to cultural shifts, but the outcome is the same. A relatively sterile low-energy…

I wonder if it's illogical to think that all civilizations must always pick the most logical of the options

Logical and optimum are not the same.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#168

Post by toenail »

danny_codes wrote: post #164
toenail wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would just make miners move somewhere with more favorable regulation and taxation, and nothing would change. Funny how taxes work

And then we wouldn’t be wasting time and energy on it. Someone else would be. Seems like a net win for us, since the entire industry produces zero value. This is like lamenting the departure of the industry of digging holes and filling them in again.

Ah, the old bitcoin has no value to me, so it can't be valuable for anyone else argument.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#169

Post by anthonj »

stouset wrote: post #146
anthonj wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This violates energy conservation principles. Some power will be "wasted" into heat, some other will be used for some other work.

If I use energy to move a block one foot over, I have performed useful work. But 100% of the energy used to perform that work is either already heat or shortly will be.

If you launch a rocket at escape velocity the momentum and potential energy you create never dissipates.

Certain chemical reaction endotermic reaction require energy to start. This energy is absorbed to generate molecular bond.

Also in the generation and absorption of high energy radiation there are non-thermal processes that can transfer energy.

Even something like bending a metal bar is not 100% a thermal process.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#170

Post by t0bia_s »

danny_codes wrote: post #163
t0bia_s wrote: post #156

Technically any kind of datacenters, not just crypto, produces heat. Clouds, AI, banaking segment, etc.

Sure, but those applications may actually do something useful. Crypto mining is entirely useless, except as a way to facilitate black-market transactions.

That is typical narrative of those who are teriffied of uknown. Or well functionial alternative transaction system that is not under control of central banks.

Fiat is no longer currency that store value. How long do you think that financial system with unlimted debt could least?

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