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Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

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Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#161
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I idly wonder if what would actually make sense here is a hybrid model that combines a gigantic fulfillment center with tens of thousands of products located "far" from people, with a large physical footprint and near to road/rail arteries, but with a mid-bandwidth, high-granularity, low-latency physical link to "near" places. For example, imagine you had an upscaled pneumatic tube system (don't get hung up on the ex…

Buried anything is just horrendously expensive. Partly because of other things that are already buried.

Sure, but "we're going to cut the costs of horizontal drilling to a tiny fraction" was the Boring Company's original stated goal. And not all of it does need to be underground.

Even if it was a good idea (which I doubt, it's just a idle thought), I don't think there's a practical way to retrofit such a system in existing cities due to the costs, planning and presumably private funding for a non-public network, because the public road system exists, needs to continue to exist for large items and can be used for virtually free in comparison. So if/when the depot-to-neighbourhood leg is automated, it's much more likely we'll see drone vehicles on the road or occasionally in the air instead of dedicated pipeline-like delivery systems.

Even without the pipeline, you can conceive of self-diving heavy vehicles pulling up next to local delivery hubs and disgorging thousands of shipping pods into a robotic receiver. From there they either get picked up, droned, Starship'ed, cycled, whatever to the eventual front door. It's still possible just having then self-drive right to the door would turn out cheaper.

Sounds very sterile as an experience, but really it's only an optimisation of the small, but highly distributed, remaining segment of inefficiency in the existing global machine that already converts raw materials to a widget or food and gets it to within 100 miles of your house.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#162
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you operating? I live in a dense European city and I don't know a single person who orders groceries online. Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient, seems hard to beat. Next few days shopping can easily be done in 15mn on the way back home.

> Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient Most people don't live in city centers. Because they are the most expensive places to live in.

You don't need to be in a city centre for small shops with bike racks.

This is village with a population of a bit less than 3000, which I only know about because I have walked East-West across most of the state of Brandenburg (from Słubice in Poland to the city of Brandenburg) and this trains station was a convenient break point:

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3459295,14.2800967,3a,60y,14...

Here's Aberystwyth, where I did my degree, population 13k, nearby villages boost that by about 6k, students by another 8k:

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4145833,-4.0848806,3a,75y,19...

I grew up on the south coast of the UK. Which is certainly expensive overall, but it has cheap areas like Leigh Park which used to be entirely council houses (i.e. made for poor people and run by the local council):

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leigh+Park,+Havant,+UK/@50...

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Argos in the UK was similar. You would go into the store and look up the product in a catalog. Then go to counter and order it, wait 2-5 minutes and they give you the product. I found it quite convenient.

Screwfix do this too. Just a counter with a handful of staff who go and get your items. If you pre-order it's waiting at the desk. Very handy for people who can order from the job site on the account and send the lad round to grab it. And a (relatively) unshittified website too because if jobbing tradies can't use the damn thing because it's too loaded down with ads and bullshit, they just won't.

Screwfix is an all-round excellent consumer experience, for DIY or trade. The reviews on the website are often hilarious as well.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Something, something, ... omelettes ... few eggs" -- mouthpiece from corporation that lobbies to cut regulations

I can't find the story, but if it's a human-driven truck there's nothing special about a vehicle hitting someone. Everyone that drives a vehicle is accepting that risk. It's not heartless to have vehicles . And I don't even know what particular regulations you're trying to imply.

[deleted]

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#165
post #159
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kinda stuff is why I'm an incrementalist, as opposed to "Great Man" theories of civilization. A big impressive product or leap-forward is mostly luck and thousands of cascading preconditions on small improvements everywhere else, and often not even the first person to try. It's not hard to imagine that if a fundamentally similar store today that took the world by storm, there would be a profusion of news stories…

But if the technology is not ready to be implemented yet, was it really a genius level idea? Here’s my idea: instant teleportation. I expect to be credited

I think that's kind of the point: there are no "genius ideas", at least not at the level and frequency popularly portrayed. If teleportation isn't feasible then the idea isn't genius. If teleportation is feasible, then using it for transporting humans isn't genius, it's incredibly obvious.

Or to give a real-world example: The Wright brothers did some great work on making aircraft steerable and doing wind-tunnel tests, but working planes were mostly a product of ICE engines finally reaching sufficient power-to-weight ratios, not of the Wright brothers being unique geniuses. In a long line of people trying to build heavier-than-air aircraft they were simply the first to have access to the necessary technology to make it work

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#166
post #136

I work in this exact space (online grocery retailer in Europe). We're profitable and one of the few companies to be so in the sector - many online divisions are losing money and being bankrolled by the parent company with physical stores. Alternatively, burning VC money. The thing that's wrong with Ocado's technology is that it's ridiculously expensive and tailored for huge FC's (fulfillment centers). The problem wit…

Where are you operating? I live in a dense European city and I don't know a single person who orders groceries online. Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient, seems hard to beat. Next few days shopping can easily be done in 15mn on the way back home.

> I live in a dense European city and I don't know a single person who orders groceries online.

I live in the U.S. and have almost never used a service like Instacart. Also, when I see the item I’m trying to order in Amazon is fulfilled by Whole Foods, I typically don’t buy it, because of the additional cost.

I’d rather suffer a small amount of inconvenience to save several dollars on groceries, and often it may mean that I may need to order a different brand to pick up a similar item at a local store.

However, I’ll gladly pay a little additional money for Amazon for many other items, because it’s convenient, shipping is included in Prime, and because I can get what I want.

I make the majority of my retail purchases at a supermarket, followed by Amazon online (Prime only), then a very small percentage in-person at Target, Walmart, or a hardware/home supplies store or some random online retailer.

The best I can do to “shop local” is to use a supermarket chain; there is no mom-and-pop to support that isn’t a chain unless it’s a restaurant. I don’t pretend that this is actually “shopping locally”.

I’ve only participated in a boycott once or twice, because there is typically a practical reason for shopping when and where I do- either I need to shop then because I don’t get out much, or there’s a sale with actually lower prices, rather than the frequent “increase the price just to cut it to get you to order more” thing, which I also get sucked into, because I don’t have time to price shop, unless it’s with camelcamelcamel for Amazon.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#167
post #75

I had a wonderful retro futuristic dream about an automated Costco warehouse a few weeks ago. It was one of the less weird dreams so I still remember it clearly. Basically, each section is like a closed areas with some windows. Customers order at the computers by the windows and flash their membership cards. Robots glide left and right to move 10 samples to the customer, in an arm with rotating clips. Customers can p…

What you've re-invented is Keydoozle, from 1937.[1] This was the first automated grocery store. Three stores were opened, but there were enough mechanical problems that it didn't work well. [1] https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/keedoozle-automated-store-p...

Wow, this man was decades ahead of his time. My hat off.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#168
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you operating? I live in a dense European city and I don't know a single person who orders groceries online. Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient, seems hard to beat. Next few days shopping can easily be done in 15mn on the way back home.

> I live in a dense European city and I don't know a single person who orders groceries online. I live in the U.S. and have almost never used a service like Instacart. Also, when I see the item I’m trying to order in Amazon is fulfilled by Whole Foods, I typically don’t buy it, because of the additional cost. I’d rather suffer a small amount of inconvenience to save several dollars on groceries, and often it may mean…

Similar shopping story at our house, but I will observe that Home Depot has made amazing strides into competing with Amazon for delivery of items.

They’ll ship me a $10 almost always for free and often next day, sometimes same day. And their prices are competitive in general with Amazon and supplyhouse.com.

I don’t know that it’s a great (or even sustainable) offering from their business angle, but I love it as a consumer and DIYer!

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#169
post #137
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you operating? I live in a dense European city and I don't know a single person who orders groceries online. Smallish shops with bike racks in front of the door are simply too convenient, seems hard to beat. Next few days shopping can easily be done in 15mn on the way back home.

Maybe it's different in Europe, but at least in Australia you end up paying more at smaller shops, so I tend to avoid them. Is this the case in Europe as well?

That probably depends on the country and what you mean by small. Smaller shops/supermarkets in Denmark tend to be cheaper, because they are run mostly as discount brands, while the larger stores a premium brands and have the more expensive options.

However, Danish supermarkets are generally kept small by regulation, meaning that there are very few supermarket that could be considered big by international standards.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally copied their supplier ( autostore ). Unfortunately, auto.ol shared secrets with them, Ocado abused that in court. Literally, Fuck Ocado. I wouldn't trust them.

Some context: https://archive.ph/Apfdv Autostore ended up paying Ocado? How did Ocado abuse them?

Yes, AutoStore lost most important cases in US (ITC) and UK's High Court.
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