Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy • Hacker News Board

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#161

Post by duxup » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 5:42 PM UTC

jmathai wrote: post #13

Maybe slightly off topic to the article, but I don't really care what Peter Thiel has to say. I do think we need to collectively think about how to not give these people a microphone. It's one thing to have concentrated wealth. It's a very different thing to have concentrated wealth and people's attention. I think that's a much more interesting discussion :).

I agree about handing the wrong people a microphone, but people are handing it to him and he has money so it potentally matters, even if I think it should not.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#162

Post by tavavex » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 5:43 PM UTC

poszlem wrote: post #14

danudey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice "both sides" argument, very subtle.

It’s intentionally blunt. That’s exactly the issue right now: fascists and communists are going at each other and tearing apart what remains of our liberal world.

Where are all those communists? As far as I can see, only one extreme of the political spectrum is viable in the first world, and that extreme is currently rapidly approaching its logical conclusion of completely crippling democracy. It's not a both sides issue.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#163

Post by mindslight » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 5:44 PM UTC

LogicFailsMe wrote: post #128

mindslight wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I find that quote tired and trite. But so-called "conservatives" could certainly stand to clear up the matter by articulating what their constructive political stances actually are these days - that is beyond merely vice signalling, performative cruelty, and a cult of personality around Dear Leader. As a libertarian, I certainly have my problems with the progressive orthodoxy. But every time I've tried to…

TBF Trump isn't a conservative. He's a populist that overthrew the Republican party without firing a single shot and the "conservatives" are all too busy running around in circles to do something about him.

Sure, I agree and I've made similar arguments. But there are still throngs of people self-identifying as conservative and considering Trump conservative. The best I've been able to surmise is that to them, "conservative" merely means in line with the reactionary talk radio of the past several decades, and that anger has replaced all of their ideals.

This is kind of understandable, because that reactionary talk radio was always a form of managed dissent. They kept getting tricked by it, and as communications democratized they somewhat realized this (hence the whole RINO thing). But as usual they're unable to see the larger overall picture, and so direct blame at whomever scapegoats their new info-bubble managers point at.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#164

Post by zingababba » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 5:45 PM UTC

It's crazy how this is trickling down. I work with someone who has recently started openly talking about the antichrist and is convinced the final revelation is going to occur. This person has always been loony but it seems to be going into hyperdrive.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#165

Post by numbers_guy » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 5:45 PM UTC

lowkey_ wrote: post #146

numbers_guy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is obviously a huge difference between fascist-aspiring westerners and communist-aspiring westerners. It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Tankies are crazy and I don't approve of their ideology, but they also do not dehumanize large swaths of the population.

> they also do not dehumanize large swaths of the population They dehumanize and kill everyone equally. I think the West (US especially) has a great system of government figured out, and I wouldn't try to say any group attempting to break that is better than another. It's not disingenuous to say that both are authoritarians who kill millions.

Please don't be childish. I have no love for communism and I get that you probably have some personal grudge against communism because of what your family has gone through. But the way you are expressing your hatred of communism is diminishing the evil committed by the NAZIs and the suffering of their victims, and that's just not right. And it's also not winning you any friends and you'd be better served if you showed solidarity with victims of other evil regimes, instead of trying to up them with your personal victim-hood.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#166

Post by tavavex » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 5:46 PM UTC

gishh wrote: post #48

tanjtanjtanj wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jacobin is not a whole journal on literal communism. It’s a magazine with a professed socialist view point but it’s more aligned with left-of-center American politics. Think Sanders or Mamdani rather than Stalin or Mao.

> Jacobin is not a whole journal on literal communism. It’s a magazine with a professed socialist view point but it’s more aligned with left-of-center American politics. Think Sanders or Mamdani rather than Stalin or Mao. > Sanders or Mamdani Sanders and Mamdani are about as far left of center as one can get at the moment, such that they almost meld into Stalin or Mao. The mental gymnastics you’re doing to blunt that…

> Sanders and Mamdani are about as far left of center as one can get at the moment, such that they almost meld into Stalin or Mao.

So, when's Mamdani's Great Purge coming? Do you think he's gonna stand by the standards of his historical ideological equivalent, Stalin, and execute a couple hundreds of thousands of elites (if we're going by the same proportions as the USSR), or is he going all out - maybe he could get a million deaths in? Maybe he could also start a famine or two on the way there?

The utter insanity of American politics baffles me. "Anything left is abhorrent totalitarian communism in the making" isn't just a meme, it's a foundational piece of mainstream American ideology that has been at its core for nearly a century now.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#167

Post by Hikikomori » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 5:46 PM UTC

cbb330 wrote: post #147

bryanlarsen wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “collectively figure out how to take away the microphone” Taking away the microphone is not censorship. We're not talking about taking away Thiel's right to speech, we're talking about taking away undue amplification of Thiel's speech. You are allowed to stand on a soapbox and shout your politics. But if you amplify your speech on that soapbox you're given a little bit of slack because of "free speech" but then are…

The soapbox-vs-megaphone analogy falls apart fast. Name me one serious, intellectually honest critic of Thiel—say, Malcolm Harris, Evgeny Morozov, Shoshana Zuboff, Mariana Mazzucato, or even random Substackers with 100k+ followers who’s struggling to be heard because Thiel bought all the megaphones. They all have huge platforms, book deals, TED-level reach, or blue-check amplification. The “undue amplification” crowd…

Does it matter then he can just buy direct political influence and power? He's not winning on the merits of ideas on a marketplace other than getting other billionaires and SV tech people on board as they would be on top of his new hierarchy, much more so than they are today.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#168

Post by relaxing » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 5:46 PM UTC

IncreasePosts wrote: post #135

SimianSci wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealth is allowing people to buy consent for their worldviews these days. this is an incredibly naiive take.

How does one buy consent for a worldview? Buying and selling require two parties - the party who is selling their viewpoint to the highest bidder isn't blameless.

Traditionally, through personal networks in media and industry — placing talking heads and op-ed’s and editorial direction to repeat your message.

More recently, purchasing a social network and then flooding it with your worldview.

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#169

Post by AlexandrB » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 5:47 PM UTC

sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #34

yannyu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the current setup, having enough money protects you from the laws of the country and the judgment of others. Thiel is rich enough and therefore powerful enough that these culture wars will never personally affect him or anyone he cares about.

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition...There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

I used to think this was deep, but it equally applies to progressivism as well as well as a range of human institutions. It's a restatement the basic observation that humans are prone to in-group bias. What's really dangerous is that some refuse to see the same flaw within themselves and instead always ascribe it to "the other".

Re: Peter Thiel's Apocalyptic Worldview Is a Dangerous Fantasy

#170

Post by relaxing » Tue, Dec 02, 2025, 5:48 PM UTC

SimianSci wrote: post #159

okokwhatever wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fact I think exactly the opposite observing how the nations are ruling their people.

Vague whataboutisms aside, at least governments can be changed more easily than waiting for a single individual to die off or be hanged/guillotined.

Perhaps not though!