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The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

arstechnica.com

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Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#161

Post by varenc »

est wrote: post #140
tech234a wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly sure the article is wrong. For example, someone found strings in Google's implementation that mentioned AWDL: https://social.treehouse.systems/@nicolas17/1155847323390351... Also people have mentioned having success Airdropping to macOS devices, which are not listed as being supported on the Wi-Fi Aware page.

> macOS devices, which are not listed as being supported on the Wi-Fi Aware page. Not listed, but shipped with some Wifi Aware library /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DeviceToDeviceManager.framework/Plugins/WiFiAwareD2DPlugin.bundle

Just `tcpdump -i awdl0` while Airdrop-ing to a Mac to observe it's still using AWDL. (unless the interface named awdl0 is actually using WiFi Aware...)

Another fun thing to do: `ping6 ff02::1%awdl0`. Pings all nearby Apple devices with AWDL active. Including things like your neighbor's phone that's not even on your local network. (but addresses rotate I believe so can't track persistently)

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#162

Post by Dylan16807 »

anamax wrote: post #112
KK7NIL wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USB-C is a worse mechanical connector for a device plugged in thousands of times over its lifetime. USB-C connectors are usually rated for 10k cycles. Do you have any evidence that lighting connectors are rated for more cycles than that? > The female port of a USB-C connector has a relatively fragile center blade. Lightning's layout was the opposite which makes it more robust and easier to clean. This is very weak…

> This is very weak a priori arguing. I could just as well argue that USB-C has the center blade shielded instead of exposed and so is more durable. The unshielded Lightning center blade is on a $5 connector. If it breaks, I'm out $5 and it's reasonable to have spares. The shielded USB-C center blade is part of an expensive device. If it breaks....

Have you ever seen either kind of port break on the inside?

This speculation is just as weak without any evidence.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#163

Post by bigstrat2003 »

JimDabell wrote: post #136
morshu9001 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had Macs on USB-C for like 7 years before the iPhone. It was going to stay like that. Mac on USB-C meant more dongles to sell, iPhone on Lightning meant cable fees and control.

You think Apple is going to make the user experience on iPhones – a product that makes them hundreds of billions of dollars a year – to sell more cables ‽ How much profit do you think they can possibly make with those cables? Apple came under fire when they moved from 30-pin connectors to Lightning because people wanted to keep their 30-pin connectors. At the time, Apple said that they wouldn’t make people switch for…

> You think Apple is going to make the user experience on iPhones – a product that makes them hundreds of billions of dollars a year – to sell more cables‽

Uh yes, of course they would. They happily would do that.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#164

Post by nozzlegear »

echelon wrote: post #116
nozzlegear wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They shouldn't be strong arming [...] the entire automotive industry. Yes they should, the automotive industry is much shittier. I have a 23 Chevy Bolt EUV with wireless CarPlay. Chevy/GM have been emailing and snail mailing me relentlessly trying to get me to pay for their $150 update to my car's navigation maps, which no longer work in my vehicle (presumably because they're out of date). This is quite the deal, a…

> With all this emphasis they're putting on upselling these $150 map updates, it doesn't take a genius to understand why GM is no longer making vehicles with CarPlay or Android Auto. Because cars are a low margin, high capital business with ruthless competition. Because a trillion dollar duopoly gets to spend a billion dollars on mapping software and give it away completely for free as part of an ecosystem / platform…

CarPlay doesn't show me ads for McDonald's, it doesn't show me ads at all.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#165

Post by vel0city »

jdiff wrote: post #66
KK7NIL wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USB-C is a worse mechanical connector for a device plugged in thousands of times over its lifetime. USB-C connectors are usually rated for 10k cycles. Do you have any evidence that lighting connectors are rated for more cycles than that? > The female port of a USB-C connector has a relatively fragile center blade. Lightning's layout was the opposite which makes it more robust and easier to clean. This is very weak…

My Pixel 8 certainly hasn't gone through 10k cycles and it barely holds on to any USB-C connector I put inside it. They all fall out even when laying still on a flat surface. There's always outliers, of course, but I had this issue with USB Micro-B on at least one other device and never saw it with a Lightning connector.

I find it's often lint in the USB-C port. Cleaning it out with a non-conductive tool like a toothpick or a dry toothbrush usually solves it for me when that happenens.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#166

Post by varenc »

tech234a wrote: post #115
madeofpalk wrote: post #27

People keep mentioning Wi-Fi Aware with this, but so far haven't seen anyone actually prove that this is the case. Apple undoubtedly added Wi-Fi Aware support to iOS https://developer.apple.com/documentation/WiFiAware , but its not clear whether iOS actually supports AirDrop over Wi-Fi Aware. Apple clearly hasn't completely dropped AWDL for AirDrop, because you can still AirDrop from iOS 26 to earlier devices. Note t…

I'm fairly sure the article is wrong. For example, someone found strings in Google's implementation that mentioned AWDL: https://social.treehouse.systems/@nicolas17/1155847323390351... Also people have mentioned having success Airdropping to macOS devices, which are not listed as being supported on the Wi-Fi Aware page.

In 2020 Google's Project Zero found a zero-click remote RCE in Apple's AWDL implementation. So at least some folks at Google are fully equipped to build a reverse engineered implementation. Discussion on that awhile back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25270184

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#167

Post by stouset »

tristanj wrote: post #113
stouset wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed GP’s point. The briar patch is a reference to the story of Br’er Rabbit, which involves pretending to object to a punishment that one really doesn’t mind at all (and might even prefer). The GP is suggesting that Apple was more than happy to have this mandate. I tend to agree: they wanted to switch the iPhone to USB-C anyway, but there’s always people who are going to be upset that their Lightning a…

My understanding is that Apple didn't add USB-C to iPhones because they planned to remove all ports from the iPhone entirely. They envisioned it as a wireless only device. EU regulation stopped this from happening, and now once they added USB-C it's difficult to take this feature away. I predict we'll be stuck with the USB-C port and form factor on most phones for the next decade.

This was a common trope on Reddit but makes literally zero sense. There are a ton of wired accessories that this would make completely useless overnight, including things like CarPlay.

And for what?

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#169

Post by notepad0x90 »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #152
notepad0x90 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is already dethroned, the only market they're doing well at is the US. And even then Android phones are still the majority, apple just tends to make a lot more money in the US. I can't think of a single product where apple is the leader of the market share, but by all means correct me if I'm wrong. Whatsapp, Signal, Viber, etc.. they're all threats to iMessage. These apps even make themselves the default SMS ha…

> Yes it does. Give me back my lightning charger. Now I have USB-C where male port is on the phone and the connector is exposed to wear and tear. Apple I have one of every Apple device category except the HomePod. But this is a horrible take. I can now use my same USB C cables everywhere. But more importantly, I can use standard USB C peripherals from network adapters USB C external monitors, standard USB C to HDMI c…

No, I get there are a lot of people like you, but you did have the choice of just using android didn't you? Governments are not ways to enforce your personal preference or force it on others. Apple felt their lightning tech was better, isn't having better tech and an environment where different ideas can be explored better? EU is already anti-innovation, you don't succeed with startups easily there, it's precisely because of this sort of close minded unimaginative thinking.

I don't care if apple required manually splicing wires to charge your phones (safely), how is it the government's right to force them to not do that? The whole point of having a free society is small things like this. I keep posting long posts on HN, so let me cut it short and say that lots of freedoms can be taken away in the name of convenience to others. Companies should be punished for monopolistic practices, but they shouldn't be punished for imagining alternative ways of doing things and succeeding with that. I've had android phones where the USB connector on the phone end broke or degraded, you can hopefully see my perspective as well? How can we have a free society like this if we can't even resolve and tolerate very small differences of opinion like this?

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#170

Post by adzm »

stephen_g wrote: post #153
usrnm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple also helped develop USB C more than a decade ago, they still had to be forced to actually use it in their phones. There is no contradiction here

That did turn a huge number of chargers and accessories into e-waste though...

With the benefit of reduced waste in the future, though
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