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The realities of being a pop star

itscharlibb.substack.com

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Re: The realities of being a pop star

#161

Post by NaomiLehman »

MomsAVoxell wrote: post #156
NaomiLehman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that the balance is difficult for regular people and impossible for famous people.

It's not impossible - it just requires attention and is a part of the responsibilities of the job, in my opinion. But even regular people try too hard to be interesting sometimes. Attention is a currency in our culture; its too often traded poorly.

I don't know what the famous people are actually feeling and struggling with. I don't know how much of what they are saying is an act and how much is real.

2025 example: Chappell Roan - I have no idea if she is genuine or is this a very cleverly manufactured brand. Outbursts at fans, bipolar disorder, anxiety, etc.

Re: The realities of being a pop star

#162

Post by baubino »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #139
WalterBright wrote: post #54

> especially when your old friends mock and ridicule you for caring about something absolutely pointless. My dad flew 32 missions over Germany. He watched men die. 80% of his cohort did not return. He expected to die and made his peace with it. He told me once that when he returned home, he was struck by the trivial problems people had and obsessed over. After all, they weren't flying a mission tomorrow with near cer…

I always feel like this is elitist (oh, look at your silly little problem, I risked death, and you are complaining about rent. And I always respond with, yes, not everyone risked death, and they do have a right to complain about rent. You did it because of your own free choice. Another aspect of this silly stance is that if we always compare with death, nothing ever gets done. It is perfectly reasonable to have every…

It’s less “look at your silly problem” and more “how can I fully appreciate life.” I see that perspective as grounding, not elitist. The previous commenter’s dad is not telling others what to do or how to live; he’s deciding for himself how he wants to live.

Re: The realities of being a pop star

#163

Post by NaomiLehman »

brabel wrote: post #153

> We are still trained to hate women, to hate ourselves and to be angry at women if they step out of the neat little box that public perception has put them in. I really don’t see this. Female singers seem to be enjoying about as much freedom to do and act in whatever way they please as it’s possible without basically letting them get away with criminal behavior… and even then many openly talk about doing drugs and o…

Few female pop stars manage to gain success without appealing to the "male gaze" even if they produce stuff for women as their target demographic. On the contrary people mostly don't care if male musicians are hot - Ed Sheeran or make very questionable decisions - Drake.

Look at top 20 male and female popular artists on Spotify and try to think how many of them are agreeable and objectively good looking.

https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html

I don't know know if this answers your question. I also might have a huge blind spot, open to talking about this.

Re: The realities of being a pop star

#164

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #38
jppope wrote: post #18

Courtney Love wrote a fabulous article explaining the realities of a million-dollar album (2000 - https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/ ) and it explains so much of whats actually going on that the public doesn't fully comprehend. Its a great read if you've never read it. The realities are similar to what we are reading in this article. Most of what gets talked about is gross numbers not net. Most of the benefits…

> Your average NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL athletes are broke 5 years after they are out of the league. Fame, is mostly a curse. I'm not familiar with the financials of music / media production (I didn't read the linked article yet, sorry). But I feel this over-pitying attitude towards professional sports players is misplaced. They do often go broke after their career. That is sad. It is also completely avoidable with _very_…

You need a certain kind of personality to be responsible financially, and it doesn't overlap with the personality required of a pop star or sports star.

Quite a few stars get scammed. "Our accountant/manager stole all the money" is not an uncommon thing.

Music and sports both have shady links to organised crime, so it's not a given that stars are going to be surrounded with the kindest and most professional people.

Re: The realities of being a pop star

#165

Post by thewisenerd »

ivraatiems wrote: post #21

There is a weird assumption people make that somebody as successful as Charli XCX isn't smart because her persona is "I like cocaine and partying," and then are surprised when she can express herself like this. Like she says: "Another thing about being a pop star is that you cannot avoid the fact that some people are simply determined to prove that you are stupid." Making music at any professional level is extremely…

there's this video essay of what makes dua lipa's podcasts good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN1rULxGHCA

Re: The realities of being a pop star

#166

Post by MomsAVoxell »

NaomiLehman wrote: post #161
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not impossible - it just requires attention and is a part of the responsibilities of the job, in my opinion. But even regular people try too hard to be interesting sometimes. Attention is a currency in our culture; its too often traded poorly.

I don't know what the famous people are actually feeling and struggling with. I don't know how much of what they are saying is an act and how much is real. 2025 example: Chappell Roan - I have no idea if she is genuine or is this a very cleverly manufactured brand. Outbursts at fans, bipolar disorder, anxiety, etc.

Culture is as culture does. I dare say that the in-group for any star has their buttons - whether the conditions to push those buttons are legitimate or otherwise, would Chappell Roan be on your mind if she wasn't pushing your buttons? Marketing people know this mechanism all too well; it is a large factor for why we have billion-dollar tabloid machines.

Needless to say, the pop industry is all about creating a facsimile of a thing, if not the thing itself. You're not buying bread from these stars - you're buying a picture of life.

Re: The realities of being a pop star

#167

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

ad_hockey wrote: post #154
bigmealbigmeal wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The operative word was "rough". They give a few hints; they're not painstakingly mapping out the melodies and chords for every instrument and determining what those instruments are, and how they sound. If you're writing for a guitar and voice, then you've basically got a song, but pop music is built on sometimes hundreds of different instruments and effects.

That seems like quite a high bar, to the extent that I'm not sure we could ever credit anyone with creating a pop song if it applies. Everyone seems comfortable crediting Lennon and McCartney with their various Beatles songs, for example, but were they doing all the things you describe? Did they do more to create those songs than, say, Taylor Swift does for hers? It's not obvious to me that it's the case.

Yes, they did. George Martin was an arranger, not a co-writer. Max Martin is a co-writer.

If you gave Lennon and McCartney a couple of guitars, a few days of studio time, a good mood, and no other help you'd probably get a hit. Or at least an interesting song.

If you gave Taylor Swift the same you'd get a demo, maybe. You might get an unassisted hit, but the odds are much lower.

Charli XCX - even more so. Give her a laptop and microphone and some plugins and no producer, and I doubt you'd get much.

Not to say that what she and Dua Lipa do is easy. But they're fundamentally performers and brands for a music production operation.

Creative agency isn't a binary. It's on a spectrum. Some people have very little. Some have a lot. Some have taste that defines the product, even though they're mostly curating other people's work.

Michael Jackson was notorious for this. He was a phenomenal dancer, an ok vocalist, not much of a practical musician. But he had a strong sense of what he wanted, and he had a theatricality that pulled the whole thing together.

Charli XCX is a version of that. I don't think her appeal is as strong or as universal, and I doubt she has as much agency as Jackson did. But it's the same idea - shape, curate, perform.

Re: The realities of being a pop star

#168

Post by throwup238 »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #139
WalterBright wrote: post #54

> especially when your old friends mock and ridicule you for caring about something absolutely pointless. My dad flew 32 missions over Germany. He watched men die. 80% of his cohort did not return. He expected to die and made his peace with it. He told me once that when he returned home, he was struck by the trivial problems people had and obsessed over. After all, they weren't flying a mission tomorrow with near cer…

I always feel like this is elitist (oh, look at your silly little problem, I risked death, and you are complaining about rent. And I always respond with, yes, not everyone risked death, and they do have a right to complain about rent. You did it because of your own free choice. Another aspect of this silly stance is that if we always compare with death, nothing ever gets done. It is perfectly reasonable to have every…

> You did it because of your own free choice.

Since when is getting drafted a free choice? Over 60% of US soldiers in WWWI had no choice whatsoever.

Re: The realities of being a pop star

#169

Post by low_tech_love »

brabel wrote: post #153

> We are still trained to hate women, to hate ourselves and to be angry at women if they step out of the neat little box that public perception has put them in. I really don’t see this. Female singers seem to be enjoying about as much freedom to do and act in whatever way they please as it’s possible without basically letting them get away with criminal behavior… and even then many openly talk about doing drugs and o…

I also think she missed the point there. Normal people bust their asses on a daily basis to do a good job at whatever it is they do, with more often than not, under rewarding compensation and a lot of problems to overcome. I think it is normal for average people to think that it isn’t fair that some of these people are getting so much overwhelmingly good stuff for things that can be reasonably seen as futile.

Re: The realities of being a pop star

#170

Post by low_tech_love »

Say what you will about this piece, I didn’t detect any AI in it and for that I thank Charli. I’ve been desperately for any original thoughts whatever that come out of a human being’s brain and in that sense it was an interesting read. However the real pearl was the link to Lou Reed’s interview, what a gem! It got me into a rabbit hole of watching Lou Reed making “fun” of obnoxious journalists on YouTube and I haven’t laughed this much in a long time. It also reminded me of this classic one from Iggy Pop: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=78S0yrMLfTU&pp=ygUcaWdneSBwb3A...

Edit: Actually that link is incomplete, this is also important: https://youtu.be/YJEvZHN9E6s

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