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In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

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Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#161

Post by HarryHirsch »

polski-g wrote: post #133
999900000999 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should cover everyone. No body goes to the doctor because they want to. I'll dare say it would be a net positive to even expand this to the undocumented. Many of them have dependents, it's not going to be great if your dad can't afford his insulin and is thus unable to work to provide for you. This includes a large percentage of our farm workers who are literally getting sprayed with pesticides all day. That's ano…

> No body goes to the doctor because they want to. I routinely go to specialists for things I don't need to, because I make enough money that it's better than waiting for the issue to go away on its own. Now imagine expanding that to the entire country, when they don't have skin in the game.

Their health would improve?

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#162

Post by toast0 »

diogenescynic wrote: post #5

Medicare should cover children. Then we'd be covering children and the elderly. I think that seems fair--children deserve healthcare (just like education) as a fundamental right. It shouldn't be dependent on their parents.

Most children don't have enough credits to qualify for Medicare.

OTOH, very few children have enough individual income to be disqualified from Medicaid, but it's based on household income.

My handwavey plan for universal federalized healthcare includes using the child's income as a qualifier for Medicaid, phased in so the system will hopefully adjust over time rather than get overloaded to collapse. Also reduce the Medicare eligibility age over time. A solution that takes decades to roll out leaves a lot of unsolved problems, but adding a large number of people to an existing program in one fell swoop feels like it's going to be a negative too.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#163

Post by SoftTalker »

runako wrote: post #151
tbrownaw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the tax man can't see it, it doesn't exist. . Scenario A: Max and Alex are a couple and have kids. Max stays home with them, and Alex has a job with a coworker named Avery. Scenario B: Max and Alex are a couple and have kids. They both work, and hire Avery to watch the kids. The same total work gets done by the same group of people in both cases, but the second measures as "better" for "the economy".

This analysis is incomplete for a couple of reasons: 1. any universal childcare scheme will involve groups larger than the median at-home familial group. Avery is watching ~1-2 kids, but if those kids are at creche, they are in a group of (say) ~4-5. 2. In much of the country, a) is financially out of reach for many couples due to cost of living generally being based around two-income households.

4.5? At a US daycare those kids will be in a group of 20-40, with one or two adults supervising.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#164

Post by terminalshort »

sudosteph wrote: post #97
terminalshort wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until very recently in human history 100% of childcare operations were unlicensed, and this was better in every way than a government bureaucracy run system.

I'm not knocking it. My parents didn't use licensed daycare for preschool for me or my sister. Just dropped us off at some old lady's house and paid her cash for watching us. 99% of arrangements like that work out fine. It may be suboptimal, but usually it's at least fine. I'm actually wondering if the program will make a big dent though. One issue with formal childcare arrangements is that the hours tend to not be f…

It may be suboptimal, but what isn't? The problem here is assuming that the expensive bureaucratic credential based system is optimal or even better at all. "Everybody knows $SOME_NEIGHBOR and she's great with kids" is just a much better indicator of quality in child care than "$SOME_DAYCARE is licensed by $SOME_BUREAUCRACY."

Also, I'm not even against state support for parents needing childcare, but giving $500 a month to each parent who needs it to find childcare in an informal system will actually be much better than a state run system that spends $2000 per kid.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#165

Post by beowulfey »

czhu12 wrote: post #142
yndoendo wrote: post #6

US actually provided child care to mothers employed during WWII. [0] Richard Nixon vetoed the bill that would have expanded it out to all families. [1] Funny how we keep forgetting the past and reject what benefited us as a whole with a moved to pure individualism built around selfishness. AKA The rich keep getting richer. [0] https://www.wwiimemorialfriends.org/blog/the-lanham-act-and-... [1] https://en.wikipedia.or…

For what its worth, the Economist recently wrote about how universal child care can harm children, citing a study from Quebec. > The trio published their first study in 2005, and the results were damning. Shifting to universal child care appeared to lead to a rise in aggression, anxiety and hyperactivity among Quebecer children, as well as a fall in motor and social skills. The effects were large: anxiety rates doubl…

It's not an intractable issue. It's just a matter of economics.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#166

Post by runako »

parineum wrote: post #150
macintux wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many people would start businesses if we had UBI and free health care as a safety net.

It takes a good idea and a willingness to take a risk to start a business. I don't think that risk aversion is what's stopping new businesses, there are a lot of people who do a lot of what I consider too risky. Instead, what I wonder is how many new businesses wouldn't be viable under a tax structure that provides ubi and health care. Not to be dismissive but that's definitely a concern in a world replete with fledg…

The data on UBI isn't out there, but it is notable that countries with similar tax rates to the US manage to have universal healthcare and more expansive safety nets. Some examples: New Zealand (tax rate ~30% less than the US), Korea, Switzerland, Australia, UK, Japan, Netherlands, Norway.

Americans really should be asking why we're paying a significantly higher tax burden than New Zealand and not getting similar services as part of the bargain.

Put another way: the US is incredibly rich compared to other countries. Our poorest states have higher GDP per capita than most rich countries. And our taxes are not particularly low. Our social issues are 100% about how we choose to allocate our shared resources. The good thing is we can always choose to make different choices.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#167

Post by mrtesthah »

OGEnthusiast wrote: post #123
siliconc0w wrote: post #113

My current theory is that we've basically gotten addicted to importing the world's smartest kids so we have been unwilling to invest in our own children.

It's also odd how no one ever asks whether the reason child care is necessary and a single-income household isn't earning enough anymore to make a living because Americans are effectively competing with the entire world for housing and jobs.

Probably because that’s not true.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#168

Post by LadyCailin »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #124
Workaccount2 wrote: post #70

All for it, but free birth control should also be provided.

Children are a positive externality so we should actually tax birth control rather than make it free. ;)

I’ll even begin to entertain this argument only once the burden of having and raising children falls on society as a whole, and not individual women. Until then, absolutely not.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#169

Post by petcat »

bparsons wrote: post #145
SoftTalker wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was done so mothers could work building tanks and airplanes, not out of any concern for the children.

This is the big reason other countries have free or cheap childcare. People who have kids want to continue earning money, and people who earn money want to have kids. It can be easily justified using only an economic productivity argument.

Very few other countries have free childcare. In Europe I'm only aware of Slovenia and a couple others. Canada doesn't have anything close to the universal system that's in New Mexico.
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