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Android/Linux Dual Boot

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Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#161

Post by tonyhart7 »

ndriscoll wrote: post #148
tonyhart7 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, thats my point game console has been doing it for 20+ years and they are fine, apple has doing it for 10+ years and they are fine Google wants doing it???? they are fine to do that. if you have problem then you are hypocrite

Lots of us have a problem with all of those things, and would like the government to enforce the law. I've never bought an Apple product, and the last game console I owned was a PS2 when I was a child.

damn building close source software is illegal now?????

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#162

Post by dotancohen »

d3Xt3r wrote: post #138
sschueller wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice, I still have my N900 but my provider here (Swisscom Switzerland) is killing 3G by the end of the year...

I wonder if there's some sort of GSM hotspot device where it connects to 4G/5G networks, but creates a small localised 2G/3G cell for older phones. Kind of like how we have mobile hotspot devices, but instead of (or addition to) creating a WiF hotspot, they provide 2G/3G...

I bet a Stingray could do that. Have any cop friends?

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#163

Post by cbolton »

immibis wrote: post #149
cbolton wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is Google the arbitrator of risk here ? Because they do the monitoring and take some responsibility? I'm just comparing "install from the Play store" with "install some apk from wherever". If you bring additional context/knowledge of course it makes a difference.

Risk and responsibility are different. Monitoring, responsibility, those are just silly words with semantic games since Google's store is full of malware while F-Droid is not. Google's store is the risky one, and the words on their compliance statements are irrelevant to that fact.

I don't feel like I'm the one playing semantic games here, I'm just arguing that the term "sideloading" is a useful distinction vs "installing through the main channel" (whatever that is: could be the Play store, or F-Droid, or Huawei App Gallery).

Google's store has malware, but the point is there would be even more if Google was not monitoring the apps there. The store is less risky than getting apks from the wild web, TikTok, etc.

Sure F-Droid is safer (as you would expect from a curated store of a few thousand open source apps compared to a store with literally millions of apps). But I wouldn't call that sideloading either when it's your regular channel to get apps.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#164

Post by cbolton »

immibis wrote: post #150
cbolton wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah maybe it gives the wrong idea. It's still better than no monitoring at all. It gets tricky with alternative stores like F-Droid. I guess if you use F-Droid as a trusted source then it shouldn't be called sideloading.

There is currently zero evidence that the "monitored" Play Store is better or safer than the open internet.

I'm curious what's your actual opinion in absence of hard data. If your grandma tells you a website gives her instructions for sideloading Candy Crush, you'd say yeah fine or advise her to go through the Play store?

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#165

Post by cbolton »

makeitdouble wrote: post #156
cbolton wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not too familiar with macOS... How normal/expected is it now to install through the App Store? As mentioned in another comment, for a Linux distribution like Debian there are highly trusted official repositories, and I think using "sideloading" for other sources would make some sense.

On macos I assume most apps are installed outside of the Store, straight from the developper's site. Which would make the Store a "sideloading" channel by that token ? On Linux you have the default package sources, but for instance adding third party sources will still integrate the same with the system, I also never heard someone call installing Go or Java "side loading", though you're getting an installer from the…

> Which would make the Store a "sideloading" channel by that token ?

I don't think so, it's still an official channel offered by the OS maker.

> adding third party sources will still integrate the same with the system

but obviously with a higher risk of breakage since it was not tested while the official release was cooking (at least for Debian the official set of packages in stable is expected to have virtually no conflict issues, but as soon as you add third-party sources all bets are off).

> I also never heard someone call installing Go or Java "side loading"

neither have I, but I can imagine that in some contexts it could be a useful term. Like "did you sideload Go?" (implicitly asking if you got the third-party release vs installing from the official distribution repository). I'm not saying people say that, but that the term might also make sense in the Linux world.

> IMHO "sideloading" would not apply to any system open enough, where adding stuff from multiple sources is expected from the start.

Yeah if there's no sense of "main" channels that are more trusted or more stable the term doesn't make sense.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#166

Post by altfredd »

dpoloncsak wrote: post #91
green7ea wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be accurate to say that you can no longer install apps on your phone, only Google can?

If we're being pedantic, the user still has to perform the final action before the install begins. I think it' more "Google has to allow you to install apps on your phone"

You mean "Google has to perform final action after user petitions it to install"

(not really final, Google can uninstall your apps anytime if they are deemed undesirable)

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#167

Post by griffzhowl »

24t wrote: post #42
griffzhowl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the ethos but "banning installing" wouldn't have been correct here. There should be terminology for installing from the source of your choice which doesn't carry the marginal or sinister connotations of "sideloading" though. "Freeloading" would have been a good one but... yeah

I'm not suggesting a drop-in replacement within that context, just that widening the definition of sideloading does us no favours 'installing from beyond the walled garden' would be a nice fit here imo

extramuraloading?

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#168

Post by surcap526 »

toastal wrote: post #3

This will become increasingly important as Google has boiled the frog too fast while trying to force its new store policies + banning sideloading; however, all of the pieces are now in place for them to try again in a year or 2, which history shows us they will. It’s certainly time to start toying with Linux phones if you haven’t already. This year I picked up an Xperia 10 to flash Sailfish OS on—which has rough edge…

[dead]

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#169

Post by ndriscoll »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #161
ndriscoll wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of us have a problem with all of those things, and would like the government to enforce the law. I've never bought an Apple product, and the last game console I owned was a PS2 when I was a child.

damn building close source software is illegal now?????

I don't see how that's related (e.g. Android is FOSS but can use attestation for monopolization), but I do think we ought to make the law require products that contain software come with source as a consumer protection measure.
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