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The fate of "small" open source

nolanlawson.com

161–170 of 238 posts

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#161
post #152

Given that some 80% of developers are now using AI in their regular work, blob-util is almost certainly the kind of thing that most developers would just happily have an LLM generate for them. Sure, you could use blob-util, but then you’d be taking on an extra dependency, with unknown performance, maintenance, and supply-chain risks. Letting LLM write utility code is a sword that cuts both ways. You often create a th…

Exactly. When you assume blob-util to be a utility library that has been in use for quite a while by many people in many different contexts, hasn't seen much changes and just "works", IMHO the risk of weird bugs is a lot larger with LLM-generated code. Code generated by LLM's often have the problem that the code seems logical, but then contain weird bugs that aren't immediately obvious.

Agreed. The code available in e.g. Apache commons is not perfect, but it's seasoned and has the edge cases documented

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was searching a specific niche on Youtube today, and scrolled endlessly trying to find something that wasn't AI generated. Youtube is being completely spammed.

On that - naive proposition; shouldn't we establish say "humanTube" - service which would strictly prohibit AI content? With all this AI slop engulfing our web 2.0 - maybe this is the time and place to establish the new web for "nerds" i.e. people who care for the real thing? Just as our current web once was a place for scientists and engineers mostly, maybe we now need something as this? I feel the flaws in my own p…

We'll get content that is indistinguishable from human curated content before long, we might even already have that and it's just toupee fallacy making us only see the slop. I'm making no value statement here, just that any sort of curation attempts are probably futile.

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#163
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Upvoting because it's a salient point and downvoters are mad. HN has a complex lately.

It's not even a point, it barely counts as sarcasm. I'm not sure why a chunk of hello world in ARM assembler is supposed to be relevant to anything, let alone if there's a trap hidden in there.

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was searching a specific niche on Youtube today, and scrolled endlessly trying to find something that wasn't AI generated. Youtube is being completely spammed.

On that - naive proposition; shouldn't we establish say "humanTube" - service which would strictly prohibit AI content? With all this AI slop engulfing our web 2.0 - maybe this is the time and place to establish the new web for "nerds" i.e. people who care for the real thing? Just as our current web once was a place for scientists and engineers mostly, maybe we now need something as this? I feel the flaws in my own p…

I think by this point that premium services dedicated to quality is going to be the way to avoid the flood of AI slop that's come to us. Premium services mean QA and accountability should anything try to slip through.

Closest thing in the YT space would be Nebula, but Nebula's scope is very narrow (by design).

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#165
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh god, without tree shaking, lodash is such a blight. I've seen so many tiny packages pull in lodash for some little utility method so many times. 400 bytes of source code becomes 70kb in an instant, all because someone doesn't know how to filter items in an array. And I've also seen plenty of projects which somehow include multiple copies of lodash in their dependency tree. Its such a common junior move. Ugh. Exper…

Unless you're part of the demoscene or your webpage is being loaded by Voyager II, why is 70kb of source code a problem? Not wanting to use well constructed, well tested, well distributed libraries to make code simpler and more robust is not motivated by any practical engineering concern. It's just nostalgia and fetishism.

> why is 70kb of source code a problem?

Because javascript isn't compiled. Its distributed as source. And that means the browser needs to actually parse all that code before it can be executed. Parsing javascript is surprisingly slow.

70kb isn't much on its own these days, but it adds up fast. Add react (200kb), a couple copies of momentjs (with bundled timezone databases, of course) (250kb or something each) and some actual application code and its easy to end up with ~1mb of minified javascript. Load that into a creaky old android phone and your website will chug.

For curiosity's sake, I just took a look at reddit in dev tools. Reddit loads 9.4mb of javascript (compressed to 3mb). Fully 25% of the CPU cycles loading reddit (in firefox on my mac) were spent in EvaluateModule.

This is one of the reasons wasm is great. Wasm modules are often bigger than JS modules, but wasm is packed in an efficient binary format. Browsers parse wasm many times faster than they parse javascript.

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#166
post #14

I don’t think open source is going anywhere. It’s posed to get significantly stronger — as the devs which care about it learn how to leverage AI tools to make things that corporate greasemonkeys never had the inspiration to. Low quality code spammers are just marketing themselves for jobs where they can be themselves: soulless and devoid of creative impulse. That’s the thing: open source is the only place where the t…

> It’s posed to get significantly stronger It's really not. Every project of any significance is now fending off AI submissions from people who have not the slightest fucking clue about what is involved in working on long-running, difficult projects or how offensive it is to just slather some slop on a bug report and demand it is given scrutiny. Even at the 10,000 feet view it has wasted people's time because they ha…

> Every project of any significance is now fending off AI submissions from people who have not the slightest fucking clue

I'm kinda hoping that Github will provide an Anubis-equivalent for issue submissions by default.

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't an AI issue. It is a care issue. People shouldn't submit PRs to project where they don't care enough to understand the project they are submitting to or the code they are submitting. This has always been a problem, there is nothing new. The thing that is new is more people can get to a point where they can submit regardless of their care or understanding. A lot of people are trying to gild their resume by…

This is an AI issue because people, including the developers of AI tools, don't care enough. The Tragedy Of The Commons is always about this: people want what they want, and they do not care to prevent the tragedy, if they even recognise it. > Project owners should instead be working ways to filter out careless code more efficiently. Great. So the industry creates a burden and then forces people to deal with it — I g…

We don't need an AI detector, we need a "human vetted" detector.

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#168
post #104
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but source-available is probably going to get slurped up for training data as well Microsoft already did this for all code in every public repo.

When are they going to start doing it for private repos too...

I wuldn't discount it already happening. They do own the most popular code hosing repository, after all.

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah we are getting lots of "I don't know how to do this and AI gave me this code that doesn't work, can you fix it" or "AI said it can do this" and the feature doesn't exist... some people will even argue and say "but AI said it doesn't take long, why won't you add it"

It weaponises incompetence, carelessness and arrogance at every turn. AI, to me, is a character test: I'm regularly fascinated by finding out who fails it. For example, in my personal life I have been treated to AI-generated comms from someone that I would never have expected it from. They don't know I know, and they don't know that I think less of them, and I always will.

I will never judge someone for using AI, but I will absolutely judge anyone for lobbing slop at me. I define slop as low effort, non-vetted, fiest-try-output.

Re: The fate of "small" open source

#170
post #119
post #92

> I’m still trying to figure out what kinds of open source are worth writing in this new era Is there any upside to opensourcing anything anymore? Anything published today becomes training data for the next model, with no attribution to the original work. If the goal is to experiment, share ideas, or let others learn from the work, maybe the better default now is "source available", instead of FOSS in the classic sen…

I keep seeing this attitude and I don't really understand it at all; there's no upside to publishing open source work because it might be utilized by more people, is that correct? Or is it the attribution? There are many many libraries I have used and continue to use and I don't know the author's internet handle or Christian name. Does that matter? Why? I have written a lot of code that my name is no longer attached…

> there's no upside to publishing open source work because it might be utilized by more people, is that correct?

I believe the perspective here is "I make code for fellow hackers to look into, critique, be educated on, or simply play with". If you see the hacker scene as a social one, LLM's are an awful black hole that sucks up everything around it and ruins this collaboration.

Not to mention that the hacker scene was traditionally thought to be a rejection of what we now call "Big Tech". Corporate was free to grab the code, but it didn't matter much as long as the scene was kept. Now even that invisible social contract is broken.

But I suppose if you're of a diehard FOSS mentality, "Free" means "Free". Free to be used to build, or destroy society at its whim. a hivemind to meld into and progress the overall understanding of science, for science's sake.

I'll admit the last few years have had me questioning what I truly want to do within the on these two mentalities.

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