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I don’t need a Steam Machine

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Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#161

Post by gf000 »

ajvs wrote: post #81
tormeh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a comparable desktop experience to the commercial OSes Isn't it alteady comparable? My Linux desktop has almost the same game compatibility that Windows has, and none of the advertising and jank. Gone are the legendary days of xorg.conf. Linux has less problems than Windows now. Support from professional software vendors (Dassault, Autodesk, et al) and Nvidia could be better, admittedly, but these restrictions aren…

And this is due to Valve's big investments in Proton, Steam Deck and the new Steam hardware to get game compatibility working from both the Linux/Wine side as well as making game developers aim for compatibility.

One part of it. The other (and arguably bigger in some way) part are drivers (Nvidia, amd, Intel) that improved a great deal over the years.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#162

Post by rpdillon »

chiffaa wrote: post #137
deng wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Arduino was 30$ when it came out. The Raspberry was 35$. I'd be astonished if they manage to get the Steam Machine down to 800$ (bundled with a controller). Knowing how Valve loves their margins, it's probably closer to 1000$ or even more. This is not something you spontaneously buy to play around with.

In one of the interviews that came out when the Steam Machine embargo ended, someone from Valve said that, unlike with Steam Deck, they can't afford to sell at a loss because the form factor and the OS of the Machine make it possible to buy it just for general compute, which would be devastating with negative margins. So, unfortunately, I guess it will be 800-1000$ in the end

The cost of freedom.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#163

Post by some_random »

Arch-TK wrote: post #110
mariopt wrote: post #12

Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless. I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC. Don’t let the “low specs”…

Valve isn't likely to make SteamOS the kind of platform that facilitates intrusive* anti-cheat** or which is locked down in a way to prevent cheating at the client side. This means that a number of competitive multiplayer games will never run on it. I think in this regard, consoles still have an advantage*** if you're into those kinds of games. * I don't care what the intention is, they are _objectively_ intrusive. *…

I think the assumption that Valve would choose user protection over getting games to work is flawed, they want openness where possible because they see it as a competitive advantage. With VAC they clearly think that maximally invasive anti-cheat isn't necessary so maybe they'll try to push providers in that direction?

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#164

Post by giancarlostoro »

gf000 wrote: post #161
ajvs wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is due to Valve's big investments in Proton, Steam Deck and the new Steam hardware to get game compatibility working from both the Linux/Wine side as well as making game developers aim for compatibility.

One part of it. The other (and arguably bigger in some way) part are drivers (Nvidia, amd, Intel) that improved a great deal over the years.

Kind of helps that most AI work happens on Linux too. ;)

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#165

Post by chupasaurus »

zihotki wrote: post #111
baq wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The steam machine as they’re marketing it doesn’t have enough RAM to be a proper development box once you start running IDEs, language servers and debuggers. They’d need to release a 64 or 128 gig sku, unless RAM is easily upgradable.

RAM is upgradable according to Linus LTT, standard modules fit. But you can't upgrade graphics/cpu AFAIR.

> But you can't upgrade graphics/cpu AFAIR

It's a laptop APU with graphics card moved to a daughter board, hence "semi-custom".

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#166

Post by Yokolos »

cubefox wrote: post #128
input_sh wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to imagine anything, Microsoft also takes 30% of every purchase made via Microsoft Store.

Apparently they don't, this says 12% to 15%: https://www.techradar.com/pro/microsoft-just-dropped-its-sto... That's still higher than what seems reasonable for a simple store front, but they aren't as bad as Valve or Apple. Note that Valve is a relatively small company with only a few hundred employees, but with one of the most extreme revenue-per-employee ratios in the world, estimated at $19 million per employee: h…

> That's still higher than what seems reasonable

Based on what? Your arbitrary standards. I still don't understand what's wrong with 30% for everything Steam provides as a platform. It's perfectly acceptable. It's not making indie developers poorer. It helping to ensure Valve can focus on the things that matter to them and do things like invest in Steam Input, Proton, SteamOS, and Steam Deck/Machine/Controller/Frame/etc. And it's still significantly better than the times when your only option was brick and mortar, where you maybe got 10-30% as the developer.

Every other digital storefront does far less and still takes 15-30%. Why is Valve the big boogey man and everybody else is free to charge whatever they want on developers while doing fuck all for anybody but themselves?

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#167

Post by Yokolos »

ekianjo wrote: post #142
constantcrying wrote: post #18

The Steam Machine is "just" a normal Linux PC, with good integration. The point is the target demographics. And, just like the Steam Deck, this is not something for power users. Most people on here know how to build a PC and install Linux with KDE on it, which is the same experience you would get with a Steam Machine. Valve is selling this to an audience of gamers, specifically those who want an easy gaming experienc…

> This is the same demographic which Sony and Microsoft are selling to. Steam has nowhere near the same name recognition as Playstation or Xbox in the general public.

Their audience is Steam users primarily. There are millions of them and all they need to do is market it on Steam. And as Valve had said (and shown with their hardware survey), the vast majority of users have shitty PC's. People keep mentioning in these comments "oh who is this for? I just built a gaming PC with an RX 9070". Good for you. Then you don't need it. However, there are millions of Steam users who do not have a 9070.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#169

Post by pbronez »

speed_spread wrote: post #148
Arch-TK wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve isn't likely to make SteamOS the kind of platform that facilitates intrusive* anti-cheat** or which is locked down in a way to prevent cheating at the client side. This means that a number of competitive multiplayer games will never run on it. I think in this regard, consoles still have an advantage*** if you're into those kinds of games. * I don't care what the intention is, they are _objectively_ intrusive. *…

There is a real need for anti cheat / certified hardware. Valve is uniquely be positioned to address it because they have trust from the gaming community. Ideally a single anti cheat mechanism would be shared by all software vendors. Online games could request "console mode" involving hardware key exchange. Done right this wouldn't have to be invasive like current anti cheat.

I wonder if it’s possible to implement anti-cheat as a USB stick. Your GabeCube or gaming PC would stay open by default, but you could buy an anti-cheat accessory that plugs into a free USB port. Connecting that device grants access to match making with other people who have the device.

There are several products that rely on a USB device like this for DRM solutions. It’s probably much easier to unlock static assets than validate running code, but I don’t have insight on the true complexity.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#170

Post by delfinom »

safety1st wrote: post #60
zmmmmm wrote: post #45

What's truly crazy is the VR headset is the same architecture as the Steam Machine. As in, it's a completely open Linux system you can wear on your face . They are literally telling the community to go nuts and hack it and install whatever you want on there. If there's any time for people who believe in open systems and open software to step up and buy the hell out of something, this it it. It will be very interestin…

The Frame announcement was certainly the one that blew my mind. A VR headset with an ARM CPU which runs a full fledged Linux operating system, can play x86 games via Proton, and can sideload Android APKs? What? Man, those guys have been busy.

Valve probably also spent a small fraction of the absurd billions meta spent on VR.
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