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European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

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Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#161

Post by jack_tripper »

torginus wrote: post #127
dmix wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well maybe European countries should have considered that before spending the last 3 decades shrinking the size of their military. Germany's military chief was ringing the alarm bells in 2023 about their inability to defend their own borders, and that was before Trump came back to power. This is the wealthiest country in Europe. Germany's GDP is twice that of Russia. EU GDP is 8.5 times larger than Russia. Yet even i…

While I wouldn't argue that Russia is richer than Germany, I think GDP is a rubbish figure - at least it clearly doesn't translate to anything I would consider meaningful. For example, can the person of today afford a higher standard of living than one of 20 years ago - unclear, food has become disproportionately more expensive, housing cost has by far outpaced the wage growth, tech has become cheaper, but big-ticket…

>For example, can the person of today afford a higher standard of living than one of 20 years ago

Forget 20 years ago, you can just back 6 years is enough. Ask any person when life was more affordable and job security better, in 2019 or today and everyone will say 2019.

Graphs like GDP or the stock market going up, mean jack shit to the average person when they can't afford a house anymore.

A lot of our economic growth was just on paper through financial instrumentation.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#162

Post by jshier »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #155
jshier wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clear that it's not legal, the Supreme Court is simply in the process of deciding whether it can happen anyway.

I mean Congress 100% gave him the power to do the only thing that's going to save us is that so many of the conservative justices are fans of the nondelegation doctrine.

No, Congress did not give him the power to implement arbitrary tariffs. They allowed limited power for emergency, targeted tariffs of limited duration and scope. This is so far beyond that they're clearly illegal, it's just a matter of whether the courts feel like writing another nonsensical opinion to allow them.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#163

Post by ambicapter »

poszlem wrote: post #55
jacquesm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk to me in 10 years or so. Changes can be very bad if they are rapid.

I firmly believe people are deluding themselves if they think that without US patronage, Europe wouldn't devolve into its historical norm, a state of internal warfare. The popular narrative suggests a 'United States of Europe' is forming, but this seems like propaganda when you look at the reality, nations are already returning to the historical status quo, prioritizing their own agendas and pulling in separate direc…

What is the mechanism through which "US patronage" prevents Europe from internally warring with each other?

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#164

Post by tick_tock_tick »

jshier wrote: post #162
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean Congress 100% gave him the power to do the only thing that's going to save us is that so many of the conservative justices are fans of the nondelegation doctrine.

No, Congress did not give him the power to implement arbitrary tariffs. They allowed limited power for emergency, targeted tariffs of limited duration and scope. This is so far beyond that they're clearly illegal, it's just a matter of whether the courts feel like writing another nonsensical opinion to allow them.

Yes, emergencies that he determines and they can if they choose to rescind. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not exactly what powers they gave him.

My hope is the court rules that Congress cannot delegate all its power like it's been doing (nondelegation doctrine) but I'm not going to pretend he wasn't granted these powers.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#165

Post by mdhb »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #123
englishrookie wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe Europe would devolve into actual internal warfare, without the US? What about the EU? I believe it has successfully kept the peace ever since its predecessor, the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) was created - specifically to avoid another war. Your example is very on point: the member states are talking - not fighting - to protect their own interests.

I think it's very fair to say the USA is the only thing that has kept the EU together and a weaker or less globally important USA will allow the EU to fracture and fall apart.

Your analysis is literally decades out of date.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#166

Post by tick_tock_tick »

saubeidl wrote: post #21
tr352 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU needs China. No green deal without Chinese batteries, solar cells and rare earth metals.

And China needs the EU. No rising Chinese middle class without the world's largest wealthy consumer market. A match made in heaven ;)

[flagged]

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#167

Post by jacquesm »

paganel wrote: post #125
Yoric wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GP means that Europe didn't intervene when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and, more generally, has done its best to limit rearmament until now. And we're going to pay for it by having a war against Russia that we might have avoided had we projected more strength. The precedent being France and UK that were so disgusted by war after WWI (and recall that France was the historical biggest warmonger among Western…

I’m Romanian, write this comment from Bucharest, a lot closer to Donbass than both France and UK. If those guys are “disgusted” about Russia then it’s their choice, but they shouldn’t re-create the Crimean War and battle the Russians on our (Romania’s) soil, with the destruction that would accompany such a war. If anything, I’d rather actively choose Russia’s side on this against the West, at least Russia is the devi…

This is a delusional position.

> If anything, I’d rather actively choose Russia’s side on this against the West

Based on your comment history, you have already done so. You've been carrying water for Russia on HN for the longest time.

> at least Russia is the devil we know

Apparently, you don't know. You think you know. Romania could be the Switzerland of Eastern Europe, but it is this mentality that stops that from happening. Russia is a terrible country towards its citizens and you wouldn't even be a citizen of Russia, you'd be a citizen of a resource for Russia, someone to be exploited or to be sent to fight Russia's wars for it. Note that this is exactly what is happening and if Ukraine should become occupied you can expect that the next wave would be Ukrainians against Eastern Europe. That is what you are hoping for here.

> I’m not alone here in Eastern Europe when it comes to this ideological choice, just look at what people vote (when they’re allowed to do that freely, that is, just look at the Călin Georgescu case).

Yes, look at that case, and think about it a bit longer: you've been actively recruited as a fifth column member in the army of a hostile nation. If war does break out (which by trying to avoid the destruction you are actually increasing the chances of it!) you might be found to be aiding the enemy, think long and hard about the consequences of such choices.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#168

Post by jacquesm »

mongol wrote: post #145
paganel wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m Romanian, write this comment from Bucharest, a lot closer to Donbass than both France and UK. If those guys are “disgusted” about Russia then it’s their choice, but they shouldn’t re-create the Crimean War and battle the Russians on our (Romania’s) soil, with the destruction that would accompany such a war. If anything, I’d rather actively choose Russia’s side on this against the West, at least Russia is the devi…

This surprises me. Is that how you see it, that countries like UK and France may choose to battle Russia on your soil? What would forego that in your scenario?

He would like to roll over to see Romania rejoin the new Russian empire. Click on username then comments and be amazed.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#169

Post by jacquesm »

Yoric wrote: post #70
bix6 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has more to do with their geography than their disgust no?

I think GP means that Europe didn't intervene when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and, more generally, has done its best to limit rearmament until now. And we're going to pay for it by having a war against Russia that we might have avoided had we projected more strength. The precedent being France and UK that were so disgusted by war after WWI (and recall that France was the historical biggest warmonger among Western…

Indeed, that is exactly what I meant.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#170

Post by jacquesm »

englishrookie wrote: post #90
Yoric wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GP means that Europe didn't intervene when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and, more generally, has done its best to limit rearmament until now. And we're going to pay for it by having a war against Russia that we might have avoided had we projected more strength. The precedent being France and UK that were so disgusted by war after WWI (and recall that France was the historical biggest warmonger among Western…

Right now, Russia's hands are conveniently tied by their incompetently fought war in Ukraine. In the mean time, most major EU countries have increased their defense budgets. Some of the larger ones, most notably Germany, are considering to reintroduce conscription. Within about five years, the EU will be able to withstand Russia without any aid from the USA. In fact, right now, Poland would be able to withstand the R…

I have a family member in the reservists in Poland, they are on the highest level of readiness they've ever been.
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