In completely unrelated news, Spain’s PM proposes mandatory Digital ID for social media users at Davos.
https://idtechwire.com/spains-pm-proposes-mandatory-digital-...
Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet
161–170 of 259 posts
Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does this apply to a digital version of an official government ID? The government already has all this data.
Governments aren’t just rolling out Digital IDs. They’re rolling out the platform to enable them to require that you authenticate with a range of apps and websites, ostensibly to keep children safe, with the real purpose being to link your unique identifier to all your online activity. They can then easily build an overall picture of who you are from that ID. Potentially, all this data can be fed into a pre-crime AI.
s/Potentially/Obviously/g
Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was showing a real QR code -- that was issued to a person who wasn't me. As soon as that produced a big green checkmark on anyone's QR scanner, I was in.
I know a guy who went to jail for that. He was in the news and everything. Banned from this country for life. Warned him that what he was doing was a stupid idea, he was even doing it for others who also got arrested...
I don't know what "that" was, and again, I had both the vaccination and the digital certificate to prove it; the system in place would not accept the real documents, so I fed it with other documents that it did accept.
Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am never handing my phone to a cop. The point is that you don't have to: > To present a Digital ID in person, users can double-click the side button or Home button to access Apple Wallet and select Digital ID. From there, they can hold their iPhone or Apple Watch near an identity reader, review the specific information being requested, and use Face ID or Touch ID to authenticate. "hold … near … review" If you're…
When buying alcohol in a physical store, in the UK we have the "Challenge 21/25" schemes https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/information-about-alcohol... such that yes if you look very young the cashier/automated checkout assistant will ask for your ID but in most cases, they will approve without checking anything. I do not see any positives to requiring identification for all transactions.
The cashier wouldn't need to ask your ID at all?
Since the phone would authenticate your age as well as give the payment information.
Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am never handing my phone to a cop. The point is that you don't have to: > To present a Digital ID in person, users can double-click the side button or Home button to access Apple Wallet and select Digital ID. From there, they can hold their iPhone or Apple Watch near an identity reader, review the specific information being requested, and use Face ID or Touch ID to authenticate. "hold … near … review" If you're…
> If you're (e.g.) buying alcohol, then the "specific information" would be your birthday, and that is all that would be sent over. Unless there is a very tight control over this - lol nope. Big stores will request as much as they can to target you with ads.
If anything, digitalisation will make it easier.
Currently if you hand your id, the cashier could theoretically take a photo of it but it's an extra (and awkward) step, and then someone would have to figure out how to extract the data and make it usable.
Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am never handing my phone to a cop. The point is that you don't have to: > To present a Digital ID in person, users can double-click the side button or Home button to access Apple Wallet and select Digital ID. From there, they can hold their iPhone or Apple Watch near an identity reader, review the specific information being requested, and use Face ID or Touch ID to authenticate. "hold … near … review" If you're…
When buying alcohol in a physical store, in the UK we have the "Challenge 21/25" schemes https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/information-about-alcohol... such that yes if you look very young the cashier/automated checkout assistant will ask for your ID but in most cases, they will approve without checking anything. I do not see any positives to requiring identification for all transactions.
> I do not see any positives to requiring identification for all transactions.
It is not about requiring ID for all transactions, it is about when ID is actually asked for (which may not be every time), the information can be provided in a more privacy-friendly way.
Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am never handing my phone to a cop. The point is that you don't have to: > To present a Digital ID in person, users can double-click the side button or Home button to access Apple Wallet and select Digital ID. From there, they can hold their iPhone or Apple Watch near an identity reader, review the specific information being requested, and use Face ID or Touch ID to authenticate. "hold … near … review" If you're…
> If you're (e.g.) buying alcohol, then the "specific information" would be your birthday, and that is all that would be sent over. Unless there is a very tight control over this - lol nope. Big stores will request as much as they can to target you with ads.
> Unless there is a very tight control over this - lol nope. Big stores will request as much as they can to target you with ads.
And you will now be informed about what is being asked for, as opposed to the current situation where if you are handing over your physical ID you may have no way of knowing what is being gleaned from it.
And being informed, you can choose to accept or decline. You can also question the need for it (the cashier won't be of much help, but inquiries can be done to head office).
Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet
#168Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Governments aren’t just rolling out Digital IDs. They’re rolling out the platform to enable them to require that you authenticate with a range of apps and websites, ostensibly to keep children safe, with the real purpose being to link your unique identifier to all your online activity. They can then easily build an overall picture of who you are from that ID. Potentially, all this data can be fed into a pre-crime AI.
They’re already doing that without digital IDs. I don’t see how this affects the other.
Part of a Digital ID is an identity provider that implements protocols such as OAuth 2 and OIDC. Once this is in place, the government that owns the Digital ID system can mandate that platforms such as social networks, search engines, email providers, etc. link the users in its jurisdiction to its Digital ID via OAuth/OIDC. As this isn't as onerous as reviewing identity documents, governments can make this a requirement for a large range of platforms, even quite small ones.
Yes, I realise governments already have some powers to view private data, but they have to do a lot of legwork to link data to specific people. They'll always get false positives, false negatives, duplicates, etc. And they'll miss a number of platforms that have data on the person of interest. Digital ID combined with a mandatory identity platform and data retention requirements will make law enforcement far more efficient and give governments unprecedented power over what we see, hear and say online. The government will have a complete list of all the platforms on which you authenticated with their Digital ID.
We're already sleepwalking into this. In Australia, we have the under-16 social media ban taking effect next month. We're also in the process of rolling out our Digital ID, which has an OAuth/OIDC-based identity system. Numerous government departments have already integrated with it. It opens up to private sector integrations in December 2026, just in time for all involved in the under-16 social media ban to realise it's not working effectively and for Digital ID to save the day. The law states that Digital ID is a voluntary means of identification and other methods should always be offered, but the UX of OAuth 2 vs. uploading photos of your ID documents and a selfie, and waiting for it to be reviewed, will make Digital ID the de facto standard for Australians proving their age and, in the process, permanently linking their Digital ID Identifier to all their social media accounts. That includes "anonymous" ones like Reddit. And integrators can apply for an exemption to Digital ID being voluntary on their platform, making the case that the per-user cost of complying with the law without Digital ID is prohibitively expensive.
Once Australia rolls this out to social networks, it will keep expanding until virtually everything is captured.
Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet
#170I'm really wary of these initiatives, because perfect law enforcement is how society ossifies. Imagine if we could prosecute all homosexual tendencies when they happened, or all interracial relationships, or any other antiquated law. Society would never progress. What happens if the government can now perfectly enforce that people under 18 can't do X or Y?
The fundamental dichotomy of all tools is they have multiple uses. People proposing these ID's frequently suggest positive uses and there are some . What they fail to do is consider the negative use cases and there are some (or the history of governments using tools to suppress). In that respect the two sides struggle to see each others point of view because one doesn't see the problems and the other only sees the pr…
This is extremely common. I think Alan Perlis captured this sentiment in his Epigrams in Programming when he said "lisp programmers see the value of everything and the cost of nothing."
I frequently find that advocates ignore cost.