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Collaboration sucks

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Re: Collaboration sucks

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the many reasons I'm still at Apple. My manager honors my decisions (sometimes, let's be honest, with gritted teeth). ("People don't leave jobs, they leave managers")

one tactic is forming a group which bullies a manager out of their job. it's depressingly effective and rife within the professional public sector

I'm in public service, teach me you ways XD

Re: Collaboration sucks

#162
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are by and large hired for cleverness, so there’s a lot of selection that makes that true even if undergrads are not far off from average. It would be better if we were hired for wisdom. Don’t confuse cleverness and foolishness. You can be both. But devs aren’t usually the ones treating their reports like children and then acting surprised when their prophecies become self fulfilling. You can blame Taylor for that…

It’s not clever to brag about how smart you are or imply you and your entire cohort are smarter than other occupations. It’s a sign of how much you are the opposite of clever. Additionally the average IQ of software developers is measured to be 110-113. That’s barely above one std of the average so you’re actually wrong. Software devs aren’t particularly clever but a disproportionate number likes to think they are sm…

While I mostly agree with your original post (egos in this field are huge), it’s hard to interpret that IQ stat without more data. Kinda low IQ to present it like that without additional info cause it’s impossible to really evaluate.

Re: Collaboration sucks

#163

This is simply an awful thought piece and is wrongheaded. The problem is not collaboration nor feedback. It is the lack of a decider. Deciding by committee is a bad way to run as an org grows. Collaboration is still key. One person needs to be the person who decides. Decides what? That is the trick. The further down you push decision making, the faster things go. But someone is the decider, not a group.

Yes and no, decision is not the only problem. Some people tend to default to ask for someone's help everytime they get blocked. Or managers drop a quick "ask Bob, he already did something similar", which might be ok on the short term because Bob might indeed give you the answer, but Alice didn't spend the time struggling and learning to be independent in the process, and Bob gets buried in random requests that prevent him from shipping his own stuff.

It's not a clear cut thing, definitely helping each other is useful, but like everything there's a balance, and striking it is bot straightforward

Re: Collaboration sucks

#164
post #36

> Every time you see collaboration happening, speak up and destroy it. Say “there are too many people involved. X, you are the driver, you decide.” (This is a great way to make friends btw). Corollary for managers: Do not say "it's your call", then once the decision has been made (and you skipped all the meetings pertaining to that decision), comment about how you would have done it differently and then retroactively…

One of many reasons I left Apple. My manager's manager would say stuff like this all the time, and then when I actually made my PR he would basically have me redesign stuff from scratch. It made me dread working on projects because I knew that no matter what I did I would be forced to rewrite it from scratch anyway.

Yuck.

The attitude I like to have is that the author can choose to do the design (doc + approval, or live discussion, some kind of buy in) first or go straight to the PR.

If the design is agreed on first, reviewers would need a really good reason to make the author go back and rethink the design—it happens, sometimes a whole team misses something, but it should be very rare. Usually, there's just implementation things, and ones that are objective improvements or optional. (For project style preferences, there should be a guide to avoid surprises.)

If the author goes straight to a PR, it's an experiment, so they should be willing to throw it away if someone says "did you think about this completely different design (that might be simpler/more robust/whatever)".

This is not the approach suggested by this article, and I'm okay with that. I tend to work on high reliability infrastructure, so quality over velocity, within reason.

Re: Collaboration sucks

#165

> Every time you see collaboration happening, speak up and destroy it. Say “there are too many people involved. X, you are the driver, you decide.” (This is a great way to make friends btw). Corollary for managers: Do not say "it's your call", then once the decision has been made (and you skipped all the meetings pertaining to that decision), comment about how you would have done it differently and then retroactively…

If you don’t collaborate before it’s shipped and don’t retroactively review after it’s shipped, how do you provide input?

Re: Collaboration sucks

#166
post #165

> Every time you see collaboration happening, speak up and destroy it. Say “there are too many people involved. X, you are the driver, you decide.” (This is a great way to make friends btw). Corollary for managers: Do not say "it's your call", then once the decision has been made (and you skipped all the meetings pertaining to that decision), comment about how you would have done it differently and then retroactively…

If you don’t collaborate before it’s shipped and don’t retroactively review after it’s shipped, how do you provide input?

You iterate on what’s shipped. It’s not a one-and-done kind of deal.

Re: Collaboration sucks

#168
post #94
post #15

While I don't agree with Charles' (clearly nuts) distaste for sparkling water, I'm happy to see people finally talking about this issue publicly. I've suffered through this at several companies, down to the level of sometimes spending like 3x the time it took to implement the actual feature on answering and 'fixing' pedantic stylistic nitpicks during code reviews. While having a homogenous style is important, I'm sol…

Can't help but think this is human nature. Ask anyone in a relationship if their partner complains about unimportant stuff. With experience and practice you can get past this stuff. so... experienced reviewers.

> their partner complains about unimportant stuff.

I can't know how you meant it, but if your partner if complaining about something 5 times a day, you might want to rethink if it's really unimportant, and understand why they care instead of "get past this stuff".

That reminds me of the guys getting dumped after 10 years of marriage complaining they genuinely have no idea why their partner left them.

Re: Collaboration sucks

#169
There is a saying: "big meetings for small things, small meetings for big things". Get sponsors before a meeting if there's anything you really want to push out

Re: Collaboration sucks

#170
Collaboration can be excessive, but it can also sometimes be helpful.

For example, if a draft is made available for someone else to review, then someone can comment in case they find something wrong that the original author does not (it is also possible that the original author might find something later that was not originally found).

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