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The 'Toy Story' You Remember

animationobsessive.substack.com

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Re: The 'Toy Story' You Remember

#161

Post by IlikeKitties »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #112
faeyanpiraat wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats wrong with terminator 2? Are there like multiple digital releases, one with better colour than the other?

There's a 4K version out that does interesting things with colour grading, here's a post I found: https://www.reddit.com/r/Terminator/comments/d65pbi/terminat... . The one on the left is the remaster. There was similar outrage (if that's the right word) about a Matrix remaster that either added or removed a green color filter, and there's several other examples where they did a Thing with colour grading / filtering i…

There's multiple versions of the Matrix on the trackers and the internet that I know of. The official release all look kinda different to each other:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mhZ-13HqLQ

There's a 35mm scan floating around from a faded copy with really weird colors sometimes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow1KDYc9XsE

And there's an Open Matte Version, which I don't know the Origin of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2eCmhBgsyI

For me, it's the Open Matte that I consider the ultimate best version.

Re: The 'Toy Story' You Remember

#162

Post by snarfy »

janeway wrote: post #136

This topic is fascinating to me. The Toy Story film workflow is a perfect illustration of intentional compensation: artists pushed greens in the digital master because 35 mm film would darken and desaturate them. The aim was never neon greens on screen, it was colour calibration for a later step. Only later, when digital masters were reused without the film stage, did those compensating choices start to look like cre…

It seems pretty common in software - engineers not following the spec. Another thing that happens is the pivot. You realize the scaffolding is what everyone wants and sell that instead. The scaffold becomes the building and also product.

Re: The 'Toy Story' You Remember

#164

Post by davidalayachew »

janeway wrote: post #136

This topic is fascinating to me. The Toy Story film workflow is a perfect illustration of intentional compensation: artists pushed greens in the digital master because 35 mm film would darken and desaturate them. The aim was never neon greens on screen, it was colour calibration for a later step. Only later, when digital masters were reused without the film stage, did those compensating choices start to look like cre…

Isn't the entire point of "reinventing the wheel" to address this exact problem?

This is one of the tradeoffs of maintaining backwards compatibility and stewardship -- you are required to keep track of each "cause" of that backwards compatibility. And since the number of "causes" can quickly become enumerable, that's usually what prompts people to reinvent the wheel.

And when I say reinvent the wheel, I am NOT describing what is effectively a software port. I am talking about going back to ground zero, and building the framework from the ground up, considering ONLY the needs of the task at hand. It's the most effective way to prune these needless requirements.

Re: The 'Toy Story' You Remember

#165

Post by layer8 »

janeway wrote: post #136

This topic is fascinating to me. The Toy Story film workflow is a perfect illustration of intentional compensation: artists pushed greens in the digital master because 35 mm film would darken and desaturate them. The aim was never neon greens on screen, it was colour calibration for a later step. Only later, when digital masters were reused without the film stage, did those compensating choices start to look like cre…

Chesterton’s Fence is a related notion.

Re: The 'Toy Story' You Remember

#166

Post by randallsquared »

pbronez wrote: post #155
janeway wrote: post #136

This topic is fascinating to me. The Toy Story film workflow is a perfect illustration of intentional compensation: artists pushed greens in the digital master because 35 mm film would darken and desaturate them. The aim was never neon greens on screen, it was colour calibration for a later step. Only later, when digital masters were reused without the film stage, did those compensating choices start to look like cre…

That’s a great observation. I’m hitting the same thing… yesterday’s hacks are today’s gospel. My solution is decision documents. I write down the business problem, background on how we got here, my recommended solution, alternative solutions with discussion about their relative strengths and weaknesses, and finally and executive summary that states the whole affirmative recommendation in half a page. Then I send that…

There are two observations I've seen in practice with decision documents: the first is that people want to consume the bare minimum before getting started, so such docs have to be very carefully written to surface the most important decision(s) early, or otherwise call them out for quick access. This often gets lost as word count grows and becomes a metric.

The second is that excitement typically falls with each iteration, even while everyone agrees that each is better than the previous. Excitement follows more strongly from newness than rightness.

Re: The 'Toy Story' You Remember

#168

Post by ilamont »

janeway wrote: post #136

This topic is fascinating to me. The Toy Story film workflow is a perfect illustration of intentional compensation: artists pushed greens in the digital master because 35 mm film would darken and desaturate them. The aim was never neon greens on screen, it was colour calibration for a later step. Only later, when digital masters were reused without the film stage, did those compensating choices start to look like cre…

There’s an analog analogue: mixing and mastering audio recordings for the devices of the era.

I first heard about this when reading an article or book about Jimi Hendrix making choices based on what the output sounded like on AM radio. Contrast that with the contemporary recordings of The Beatles, in which George Martin was oriented toward what sounded best in the studio and home hi-fi (which was pretty amazing if you could afford decent German and Japanese components).

Even today, after digital transfers and remasters and high-end speakers and headphones, Hendrix’s late 60s studio recordings don’t hold a candle anything the Beatles did from Revolver on.

Re: The 'Toy Story' You Remember

#170

Post by eviks »

phantasmish wrote: post #159
eviks wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the "a" vs " the", you can encode different sources that would have different grains, or the same source would have different grain at different times. But also a simulation called compression of a real thing is different from that real thing, so that purity test had already been failed

I just feed AI the IMDB summary and let it re-create the movie for me. Just as “pure” as high-bitrate h.265, after all.

You've chosen your argumentative perch very well, it's indeed right down there with the AI slop where you can't see any difference in reality
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