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Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

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Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#161

Post by notepad0x90 »

amiga386 wrote: post #127
notepad0x90 wrote: post #41

It sounds extreme, but I support banning usage of anything that runs software for children under 13. Under 13, children are still developing their minds, it is important for their welfare that they learn how to function without technological dependencies. You know how in school they used to tell us we can't use calculators to solve math problems? Same thing. It can't be done by individual parents either, because then…

I was programming age 5 in BASIC. Raspberry Pis are the modern equivalent and I think every child should have one. > they learn how to function without technological dependencies. So like the Amish? Or are they still too technologically dependent and children need to be banned from pulleys, fulcrums, wheels, etc.?

I don't know much about the Amish, so I can't comment.

Teaching kids how to code isn't all that meaningful on its own. knowing what to do once you learn how to code is. If your plan is to teach your kid how to code, teach them to solve problems without code at that age. Unless you're serious about thinking learning at age 5 vs age 13 would make a big difference.

I think every kid 13 and above should have an rpi too.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#162

Post by worik »

I am in New Zealand and we are debating this now

I am a dissenter. A ban for children is onerous and how can it be enforced? Who will be punished for infractions?

Better a legal code of conduct for platforms that want to raise revenue in your jurisdiction (the important ones, that the state has leverage over). The code should do two things:

1. Prohibit the targeting of individuals below 21

2. Mandate moderation of spaces where young people gather, with resources to enforce it

A ban is much more satisfying to the do goobers and much worse for those it is supposed to protect

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#163

Post by SunshineTheCat »

josephg wrote: post #95
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy to think how less government would need to act like a mom if there were one or two parents out there who were familiar with the word "no."

If all the other kids are on social media all the time, it makes it much harder to keep your kids off it. Would you want to be the one kid in school who’s not online? Would you want that for your kids? Bans like this make much more sense at a community level. Not an individual level.

The idea that it's "hard" therefore we need government to save us is exactly why the program itself will never work. The problem is much deeper than law or government can fix.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#164

Post by notepad0x90 »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #71
notepad0x90 wrote: post #41

It sounds extreme, but I support banning usage of anything that runs software for children under 13. Under 13, children are still developing their minds, it is important for their welfare that they learn how to function without technological dependencies. You know how in school they used to tell us we can't use calculators to solve math problems? Same thing. It can't be done by individual parents either, because then…

I was learning to program at age 11. This does indeed sound extreme.

Would it have made a big difference if you learned to code at 13? Is there a pressing need as to why kids need to code at a young age? Maybe there could be exceptions for children that develop sooner? If your other developmental metrics were met early on, I don't see why an earlier age would be a problem.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#165

Post by zero_shift »

amiga386 wrote: post #127
notepad0x90 wrote: post #41

It sounds extreme, but I support banning usage of anything that runs software for children under 13. Under 13, children are still developing their minds, it is important for their welfare that they learn how to function without technological dependencies. You know how in school they used to tell us we can't use calculators to solve math problems? Same thing. It can't be done by individual parents either, because then…

I was programming age 5 in BASIC. Raspberry Pis are the modern equivalent and I think every child should have one. > they learn how to function without technological dependencies. So like the Amish? Or are they still too technologically dependent and children need to be banned from pulleys, fulcrums, wheels, etc.?

I think a better distinction is internet enabled software.

I had a good time programming BASIC on my V-Tech pseudocomputer, at age 9. But that's a world away from tiktok, reels and the predatory surveillance economy.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#166

Post by cycomanic »

mothballed wrote: post #101
foobarian wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who needs laws! Let's also let them all smoke cigarettes too then while we're at it.

Lol you can order a cigar or pipe tobacco on the internet completely legally without any ID check. Most people don't know this. You can do it with wine, too, for the vast majority of the US. It's not really a problem.

I suspect you need a credit card though? Can kids sign credit card contracts without parent consent in the US?

Moreover just because that laws and regulations are applied inconsistently in the US (and we are talking about Denmark here), does not mean we should completely do away with them.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#167

Post by cycomanic »

arcfour wrote: post #139
dmje wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent of a 21 and 18 year old so I’m somewhat familiar about how to do parenting, thanks. Yes, “no” is a tool that more parents can and should reach for. But if you’ve got any experience at all of kids you’ll know it’s really not as straight forward as this. The more responsibility you can push off to others, such as government or schools, the easier this is. We brought ours up with pretty strong guidelines and lots…

Describe three hypotheticals to me of what you think will happen in the following circumstances: * Kid who is told "no" by his parents * Kid who is told "yes" by his parents * Kid who "can't" sign up for social media because it's illegal to do so at their age, who then signs up for it when it becomes legal. I would really like to see what you believe the outcomes of these three scenarios would be, because I doubt any…

Ok so what about selling alcohol to kids? Or cigarettes?

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#168

Post by mothballed »

cycomanic wrote: post #166
mothballed wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol you can order a cigar or pipe tobacco on the internet completely legally without any ID check. Most people don't know this. You can do it with wine, too, for the vast majority of the US. It's not really a problem.

I suspect you need a credit card though? Can kids sign credit card contracts without parent consent in the US? Moreover just because that laws and regulations are applied inconsistently in the US (and we are talking about Denmark here), does not mean we should completely do away with them.

Not sure if it's changed but I had a debit card and bank account from age 15 when I started working as a kid. I got it without even involving my parents, not sure if you can still do that now, it was before the KYC stuff ramped up to the nines.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#169

Post by simongray »

boomlinde wrote: post #92
tokai wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With digital ID. They are releasing it in a couple of months. https://digst.dk/it-loesninger/den-digitale-identitetstegneb...

Would social networks accepting Danish users have to implement the other end of that, or will they also be allowed to use less privacy-oriented age verification solutions (e.g. requesting a photocopy of the user's ID)? It seems to me like it's either a privacy disaster waiting to happen (if not required) or everyone but the biggest players throwing out a lot of bathwater with very little baby by simply not accepting…

> everyone but the biggest players throwing out a lot of bathwater with very little baby by simply not accepting Danish users (if required).

The biggest players in social media are precisely the ones that this law is targeting.

No one in charge of implementing this law is going to care whether some Mastodon server implements a special auth solution for Danish users or not, they are going to care that Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, etc. do so.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#170

Post by delusional »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #122
delusional wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is indisputable. I dispute that. The proposal explicitly states it has to be true that "it is likely, despite any mitigation measures that the provider may have taken or will take, that the service is used, to an appreciable extent for the dissemination of known child sexual abuse material;" > How can a judge be involved Because the proposal does not itself require any scanning. It requires Member states to co…

You must be trolling. > it is likely, despite any mitigation measures that the provider may have taken or will take, that the service is used, to an appreciable extent for the dissemination of known child sexual abuse material That is an absolute vague definition that basically encompasses all services available today including messaging providers, email providers and so on. Anything can be used to send pictures thes…

> This is taken verbatim from the proposal that you can find here

You're taking quotes from the preamble which are not legislation. If you scroll down a little you'll find the actual text of the proposal which reads:

> The Coordinating Authority of establishment shall have the power to request the competent judicial authority of the Member State that designated it or another independent administrative authority of that Member State to issue a detection order

You see, a judge, required for a detection order to be issued. That's how the judge will be involved BEFORE detection. The authority cannot demand detection without the judge approving it.

I really dislike you way of arguing. I thought it was important to correct your misconceptions, but I do not believe you to be arguing in good faith.

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