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Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

electrek.co

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Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#161

Post by jimnotgym »

floam wrote: post #84
maccard wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile here in UK, we’re unable to get phone signal in the middle of major population centres

Not literally no signal/service, right? More likely “I have a few bars but data doesn’t seem to work… calls often won’t initiate unless 911?” thing you get when there’s too many devices connecting to an overburdened tower, in a network that needs more cells or something, and QoS/qci says no? If it’s a population center someone would probably have put up a tower on their land ll

911 would get you nowhere in the UK;)

I have no phone signal in my village, a few miles from a major town. I have to use WiFi calling to talk on the phone. Our local politician campaigns against it, it is such an issue. Especially since analogue phone lines are due to be turned off soon. We still have a working red phone box though!

I travel around a bit in the area and blackspots are very common

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#162

Post by cycomanic »

mrguyorama wrote: post #89
Tade0 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss is not that much - approximately 3.5% per 1000km. IIRC the Changji-Guquan HVDC line reported around 8% over 3300km thanks to working at 1100kV. Extend that to 10k km and you're looking at approximately 25%, but if it's surplus solar, who cares? Such a line costs as much as a highway broadly speaking, so it's not impossible to build.

For reference, that would give me in Maine the ability to buy power from a solar farm in Arizona or other literally unutilized deserts. Local power costs are over 30 cents per KWh, so that could be pretty competitive. The problem is that, no profit based organization will ever build "surplus" solar to enable that kind of thing. If we want surplus power, if we want a strong grid, if we want cheap power, if we want to…

> For reference, that would give me in Maine the ability to buy power from a solar farm in Arizona or other literally unutilized deserts. > > Local power costs are over 30 cents per KWh, so that could be pretty competitive. > > The problem is that, no profit based organization will ever build "surplus" solar to enable that kind of thing. If we want surplus power, if we want a strong grid, if we want cheap power, if we want to enable the ability to quite literally waste solar power on inefficient processes (including things like industrial processes that produce less CO2 or generating hydrogen or methane as long term energy storage), we have to get the government to make it happen

There are huge orbortunities for arbitrage in these areas. That's why in Europe there has been significant investment into HVDC connections recently. AFAIK they are mostly (all? ) build privately without special government subsidies (over the usual ones that all large infrastructure projects always seem to get). I think this partly the beauty of the renewable revolution, it

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#163

Post by hexbin010 »

RobinL wrote: post #142
hexbin010 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's quite fun (and educational) with the kids to work out when to put the car on to charge, when to run the dryer etc, looking at the few days ahead forecasts. As if we aren't busy enough. I see this as just yet _another_ job the government/business is making us do instead of them. Is it too much to ask for my government to provide sensibly and simply priced energy so we can get on with our day, working, studying,…

I think it's best to view this from an economics point of view - in a nutshell price signals are usually the most powerful way to create behavioural change; in this case, we want people to shift demand away from peak times. Nobody is being forced to, they just have to pay more for the convenience of not bothering. > IMO this is just setting us up for insane surge pricing for those people who don't do the good citizen…

> we want people to shift demand away from peak times

Because governments have let energy companies fail to invest in necessary infrastructure for decades.

And who is the "we"? Definitely not me

I think a much larger conversation needs to happen about people's schedules, commitments and whether it's fair to say those who have less time and less flexibility due to work, children etc are somehow actively choosing to not be a good eco citizen. It's incredibly unfair.

I'd rather go back to root causes and re-evaluate private companies failing to provide the necessary infrastructure

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#164

Post by smallerize »

freedomben wrote: post #18
almosthere wrote: post #10

For some reason when I read that I thought it was offering anyone in the world free electricity, and I started imagining the USA setting up a giant undersea cable... then I realized the voltage drop would be too high, then finally realized they meant it for Australians only!

Now I'm imagining drilling through the Earth to get the shortest possible line from Australia to my house. I like this

The core is mostly iron and nickel already, so you don't have to drill the whole way!!

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#165

Post by cycomanic »

mrguyorama wrote: post #89
Tade0 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss is not that much - approximately 3.5% per 1000km. IIRC the Changji-Guquan HVDC line reported around 8% over 3300km thanks to working at 1100kV. Extend that to 10k km and you're looking at approximately 25%, but if it's surplus solar, who cares? Such a line costs as much as a highway broadly speaking, so it's not impossible to build.

For reference, that would give me in Maine the ability to buy power from a solar farm in Arizona or other literally unutilized deserts. Local power costs are over 30 cents per KWh, so that could be pretty competitive. The problem is that, no profit based organization will ever build "surplus" solar to enable that kind of thing. If we want surplus power, if we want a strong grid, if we want cheap power, if we want to…

> For reference, that would give me in Maine the ability to buy power from a solar farm in Arizona or other literally unutilized deserts. > > Local power costs are over 30 cents per KWh, so that could be pretty competitive. > > The problem is that, no profit based organization will ever build "surplus" solar to enable that kind of thing. If we want surplus power, if we want a strong grid, if we want cheap power, if we want to enable the ability to quite literally waste solar power on inefficient processes (including things like industrial processes that produce less CO2 or generating hydrogen or methane as long term energy storage), we have to get the government to make it happen >

I think what we seeing in a lot of places now is quite the opposite. There are significant opportunities for arbitrage, so private entities are building HVDC lines in Europe for example (without special subsidies over the usual ones that all big infrastructure always seems to get AFAIK). That's part of the beauty of the renewables revolution it breaks up the stronghold that only a few big corps held over generation.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#166

Post by recursive »

jeffbee wrote: post #101
larusso wrote: post #98

I still wonder who came up with the charge your car during the day / use it as a batterie. I don’t have the luxury’s of owning two EVs that I can charge and use at the same time. If my car stand unused at home so I can charge it would mean I use it during the night? I understand that there could be useage pattern where someone works from home once or twice a week and waits with the charge during these peek hours. But…

Everything about the push to convert the whole fleet to EVs falls apart under even the slightest rational scrutiny.

Is it falling apart right now? It seems the poster has forgotten that EVs can be charged at home but also away from home. They mention that in the last paragraph, but it kind of seems to undermine the whole premise that this is a problem.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#167

Post by nosianu »

lazyeye wrote: post #104
willvarfar wrote: post #3

Ignoring the politics, we have to say that China has done the world collectively as a whole a major service in strategically developing and mass producing super cheap solar panels.

The article was about Australia, not China. Incidentally it was also Australia that invented the modern solar panel.

> The article was about Australia, not China.

And??? The parent commenter wrote about the manufacturer of said solar panels, going outside the frame of that article to something related but still relevant, given that that article surely is meant to stimulate a more general discussion.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#168

Post by jay_kyburz »

andrewinardeer wrote: post #140

On the flip side here in Australia the government for years encouraged us to get panels put on our house by selling it as, "You can export power and create a small income exporting the surplus you create". So many people did so that at one point last year the government said, "So many people are exporting it now, and the surplus is so great on the network we may have to charge you for exporting it". Wholesale power p…

I haven't look into the details, but It sure feels like a slap in the face to those of us who invested in panels.

I think this is about battery sales for those that can afford it. Fill a battery up for free and use the power during peak hours.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#169

Post by testing22321 »

loeg wrote: post #149
testing22321 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average price of power in Australia is 34 cents per kWh. The average Aussie spends A LOT more than $0.20 per day.

GP isn't talking about a full day's use, but "free electricity for an hour or two each day (or even each week)."

The whole reason to spend the money on the battery is so you can use the free power for a lot longer than an hour or two!

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#170

Post by jay_kyburz »

loeg wrote: post #149
testing22321 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average price of power in Australia is 34 cents per kWh. The average Aussie spends A LOT more than $0.20 per day.

GP isn't talking about a full day's use, but "free electricity for an hour or two each day (or even each week)."

You'll want to draw as much power as possible while its free, and use it duing peak times.
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