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What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

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Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#161

Post by coldpie »

bakies wrote: post #158
coldpie wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passkeys are another brick in this wall. The authors of the spec built in client software identification and attestation, which means authenticating parties can require you to only use certain, closed-source passkey clients. It's not hard to imagine a future where only blessed Passkey clients, such as Microsoft's, Apple's, and Google's implementations, are allowed by most services.

Yeah I hate this, installed a new CPU and none of my passkeys work. The browser asks my phone and they don't trust each other and not a damn clue how to fix it.

You could have used an open source client to manage your passkeys as you like, including backing them up in your own storage format. I wrote about it here: https://www.smokingonabike.com/2025/01/04/passkey-marketing-...> I was quite excited about it... until I found out that the Passkey spec authors have warned that client that it may face server-side bans because it lets you manage your own private key how you want, and the spec authors think this is appropriate for servers to do. So I deleted all my Passkeys. Sigh.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#162

Post by whitehexagon »

I worry that this global push for 'Know Your Developer' and the attempt to make them legally liable for what they produce, is going to destroy open source, An 'open' linux included.

After that, certified locked down BigTech 'Personal Computing' will be the only menu choice.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#163

Post by walterbell »

coldpie wrote: post #129
elric wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death by a thousand cuts. TPM, secure attestation, age verification, DRM, and probably more things I'm forgetting right now.

Passkeys are another brick in this wall. The authors of the spec built in client software identification and attestation, which means authenticating parties can require you to only use certain, closed-source passkey clients. It's not hard to imagine a future where only blessed Passkey clients, such as Microsoft's, Apple's, and Google's implementations, are allowed by most services.

Password managers are regulated as "important" software under EU CRA (Dec 2027).

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#164

Post by moi2388 »

Good. I want walled gardens. I want to be sure all code is audited and vetted.

I don’t like that governments are forcing companies to open their environments up to random code, I wish they instead put legislation in place about transparent vetting processes, and allowing different kinds of apps.

In general I think software engineers get away with things no real engineering job gets away with, and it baffles me.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#165

Post by gvurrdon »

ryandrake wrote: post #125
fsf4alltemp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, the same verification service is used to access banks, health services (private and public), taxes, and even verify online retail purchases. This verification app on Android requires Play Integrity on first time activation so fresh installs of something like GrapheneOS will not let you use the app. It's still currently possible to use a hardware token alternative to the app. It is only getting less con…

I see all of these "in my country, we need a phone to do X" posts, and while I believe them, I feel like they always leave out key information. I'd also like to know: What actually happens when the customer does not have a phone? Do you just never get healthcare? Do you just never bank? Surely there are (perhaps inconvenient) alternatives that people without phones can use. The national government doesn't just let it…

Recently, I was referred by my family physician to a healthcare provider. That provider required a mobile phone number for registration. I emailed them to complain about this and their reply was that if I did not have a mobile I should contact the referring medical practice to find an alternative means of treatment. I did, and their response was that I should take it up with the provider. But this is, of course, just one anecdote. I would also be interested in seeing more information.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#166

Post by fsflover »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #153
fsflover wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there's a reply to that: https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stal... via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21113414

Yeah yeah but the reason why I link to that, is that if someone is interested they can with minimal effort find by themselves all the information to understand it was just a smear job. Like, someone says "C assaulted B". And Stallman says "If A forces B to offer herself to C, C didn't assault B". Which is obivously correct. It could only be incorrect if you were redefining words to serve your purposes.

I got what you're trying to say, and I agree. I just added my link for completeness.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#167

Post by dehrmann »

fghorow wrote: post #2

The one word answer to this? Linux.

It got this way because 99% of people are happy running what's in the app store, and the security protections are more valuable than being able to run arbitrary code.

Linux as an answer doesn't address the needs of 99% of people, so 98% will never adopt it. It's better to meet people where they're at and push for sideloading and alternative app stores.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#168

Post by dminik »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #153
fsflover wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there's a reply to that: https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stal... via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21113414

Yeah yeah but the reason why I link to that, is that if someone is interested they can with minimal effort find by themselves all the information to understand it was just a smear job. Like, someone says "C assaulted B". And Stallman says "If A forces B to offer herself to C, C didn't assault B". Which is obivously correct. It could only be incorrect if you were redefining words to serve your purposes.

Ok, I'm confused here.

I had a look at what Stallman said and what Minsky allegedly did.

Apparently, Minsky had sex with one of Epstein's girls, who later said she was forced into it. Now, his wife denies the allegation, as she was apparently with him at all times on Epstein's island.

Now, I can believe that he went once, and maybe had sex with someone he didn't know was not doing so willingly. But, what about his wife? Was he cheating on her? Was she a part of it?

And why did he return a second time? And after Epstein's conviction in 2011???

And here comes Stallman, and he's not even denying that he's slept with someone, potentially cheating on his wife? His issue is with the wording?

Nobody in this situation looks good.

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#169

Post by lejalv »

ryandrake wrote: post #124
amelius wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is the main idea behind iOS and the App Store. I don't get why smart people are falling for this.

Let me try to strawman a little: I personally accept this on my phone because I honestly don't consider my phone to be a computer, and I don't really care about "computing" on it. My phone is not really that important to me. It is a toy/appliance that I goof around with. What it's running and how "free" and "open" it is, is about as important to me as how free the firmware in my car is, or the software on my gaming c…

While this is fine for you, I worry about a sociocultural divide.

I believe the likelihood of a smartphone being the only form of computing (and access to the internet in particular) grows with diminishing income / cultural means.

This is based on anecdotal observation, does anybody here know of relevant survey data?

Re: What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?

#170

Post by netdevphoenix »

sifar wrote: post #136
klardotsh wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s possible on very few phones these days. Only a handful of OEMs still ship phones that can be bootloader unlocked at all (at least in the US), and even several of THOSE require phoning home to the OEM to get an IMEI-dependent unlock key to pass to fastboot. Source: 7 years of running deGoogled Android phones and 11 years of running ROM’d Android phones before recently moving to iOS and giving up.

Curious, have run GrapheneOS on pixels ? They don't have this issue, though it might change now.

Given that Google itself is the manufacturer of Pixel devices, I wouldn't hold my breath on them allowing you to keep this ability forever
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