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Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

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Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#161

Post by serf »

JohnMakin wrote: post #42
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

“just play better poker” like that’s an easy thing to do in a game of chance and incomplete information, with variance having years or decades long tails. not to mention it’s an unsolved game, so “better” poker doesn’t even really have a set definition and depends on tons of variables. and they literally knew what hole cards were coming - that’s vastly more of an edge than playing “better poker” than someone. Besides…

>“just play better poker” like that’s an easy thing to do in a game of chance and incomplete information

you just need to beat the table, you don't need to become an over-average pro.

that decades long tail you mentioned is for pros chasing profitability in tournaments -- it's a much shorter tail when you're playing fish in setups.

being better at poker than the guy at the table who is good at making money isn't a big leap, it's what sharks and hustlers have been aiming at for hundreds of years.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#162

Post by jjmarr »

koolba wrote: post #110
empath75 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a device that can scan the _sides_ of specially marked cards and tell you the complete deck order. For the shuffling machine there is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ20ilE5DtA There are _so many_ ways to cheat at poker that you should basically never play a private game outside of close friends. If you wanted to spend a year or so practicing, you can learn how to do false shuffles and cuts, bottom dea…

> There are _so many_ ways to cheat at poker that you should basically never play a private game outside of close friends. Playing in an actual regulated casino or poker hall eliminates most of the technical risk of a fraudulent shuffle. The risk to the enterprise of losing their gaming license keeps things honest. Imagine the net effect of Bellagio’s shuffling machines or dealers being rigged. But nothing can elimin…

Regulated casinos take a certain % of every pot and players don't want to give up $5 or $10 a pot to pay for regulations/oversight/etc.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#163

Post by BurningFrog »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

The self made ultra rich are quite smart on average.

I doubt the same is true of these Cosa Nostra and NBA guys.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#164

Post by xbar »

Mistletoe wrote: post #2

Between all these recent gambling stories with coaches and players and the Kawhi thing I think I’m done with the NBA. The NBA’s gambling push has done nothing but gross me out. Greed unbridled. They saw the 1919 World Series and said “Let’s bet on this shit.”

NBA stopped being an interesting sports entertainment product to me by the year 2004. It has generated a handful of interesting narratives since, but not really enough to keep me engaged in the face of its enshitification.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#165

Post by metabagel »

simonsarris wrote: post #114
everdrive wrote: post #75

This is probably a very HN comment, but I cannot imagine why people actually like gambling and poker: - high likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is to lie to friends and strangers - you're stuck sitting at a table and following rules for hours - the only victory condition is that you take money from other people

I mean, one could write something like "I cannot imagine why people actually like ski resorts" - 100% likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is fly down a mountain and not hit any trees (about 45 more deaths per year than poker in the US) - you're stuck sitting in a lift or a line and following rules for hours - there are no victory conditions

> 100% likelihood you lose money

Paying money for a service and losing money gambling are two different things.

> the point of the game is fly down a mountain and not hit any trees (about 45 more deaths per year than poker in the US)

It's not a game. It's an activity.

> you're stuck sitting in a lift or a line and following rules for hours

Not the whole time.

> there are no victory conditions

Right, because it's not a game.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#166

Post by cyrialize »

beoberha wrote: post #125
cyrialize wrote: post #73

The story behind how Chauncey got his coaching job is kind of sketchy as well! The blazers didn't really listen to Dame at all, and the GM has known Chauncey for more than 30 years. At the time of Chauncey being hired, his only coaching experience was ~1 year of being an assistant coach.

Former players being hired as head coaches without much other coaching experience is fairly common in the NBA.

Yes, but in this case the blazers head office said they were going to search for a coach, and they also took input from Dame on what coaches he thought would be good for the team.

They didn't do any search at all, and just went straight to hiring Chauncey.

This partially contributed to Dame leaving - it also didn't help that Chauncey and Dame didn't quite get along (and also deciding to bench him in the last 10 games of the season to tank).

I'm honestly fine with players being hired as head coaches. Before looking into it I thought it was totally fine with Chauncey, especially given his track record as a leader on the Pistons and being a phenomenal classic point guard.

The main issue for me is just telling people you're going to do a search... and then not doing it.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#167

Post by elicash »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #149
elicash wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than 30 arrests, and the scheme dates back to as early as 2019. The article says "A cut OF THE PROFITS went to those who helped in the plot," implying that the $7m wasn't truly profit but actually revenue? The writing is unclear to me. I'm not sure if this is before paying out to 30+ people over several years, or after, but article implies before, that it's how much was taken from victims. That I think makes the…

Honestly I imagine a lot of this just became chasing yet another thrill that net you maybe tens of thousands of dollars. I could totally see why someone would be in to that. Most hobbies drain your bank account after all lol Same reason there are people out there who shoplift even though they don’t need what they’re grabbing. The thrill of the act.

I can definitely imagine a scenario it was worth it (a) just to fund them getting to hang out with NBA players, and/or (b) make connections with other wealthy folks in ways that are beneficial towards other ends.

And that they just didn't want to operate it at a loss.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#168

Post by gdulli »

ClarityJones wrote: post #92
Aurornis wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, people play poker, and cheat, and they want the government to police their poker games and make sure they're fair. No, if you personally run a poker game in your house and cheat your friends the government doesn’t care. The FBI isn’t going to be interested. If you join the mafia and run an organized crime ring that operates poker games as a business which systematically defrauds people for large amounts of mon…

Okay, a lot of people cheated at a lot of poker games? I feel like we're being redundant here. So, their cheating was organized and systematic? Yeah, you can't really cheat consistently without having a scheme. Did anyone really think the mafia were running fair backroom poker games?

It's not even lunch yet and "the mafia should be allowed to build onto their tower of crimes in peace" is a take that I don't think that will be beat today.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#169

Post by alexey-salmin »

everdrive wrote: post #75

This is probably a very HN comment, but I cannot imagine why people actually like gambling and poker: - high likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is to lie to friends and strangers - you're stuck sitting at a table and following rules for hours - the only victory condition is that you take money from other people

Right so what are the downsides?

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#170

Post by metabagel »

smallstepforman wrote: post #157

This can be done with no tech at legit casinos. Just have a group of people with a predetermined “tell” system so that only the best hand in the group competes against the fish. In a 4 player game, with 3 teamplayers and 1 fish, thats 75% of games you’ll win. With zero tech.

Wouldn't this be discovered and get you banned by the casino?
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